Tuesday, July 05, 2005

Interview with Jackie McGauley, Part One



"I dunno - sounds like McMartin" seems a typical reaction to virtually every allegation of the organized, ritual abuse of children in America. Despite medical examiners having found "scars, tears, enlarged body openings or other evidence indicating blunt force trauma consistent with the repeated sodomy and rape [the children] described" (as reported in the Los Angeles Times in October 1988); despite the finding of tunnels beneath the preschool as children had described them; despite a poll of jurors after the trials which found a majority believed children had been abused but the prosecution hadn't made their case - despite all these things and more, McMartin has been massaged into public consciousness as an example of how such things could never happen. If people know nothing else about McMartin, they know it's a hoax.

Except it isn't. So what is it?

This is the first part of my interview with Jackie McGauley, leader of the McMartin parents and organizer of the tunnel dig.


It seems whenever a ritual abuse case arises, "McMartin" gets a cautionary mention as an example of "Satanic Panic." Is that how McMartin should be remembered?

"Satanic Panic" is the very catchy name of a book written in 1998. The media really ran with this concept because it was basically a windfall for them.

I can't speak for all of the parents and families, but I can tell you that the trial was about child molestation, not satanism. Evidence showed that there was definitely pornography being filmed and our children were prostituted, not only in the community but taken to other places by airplane, cars and vans. There definitely was sadistic torture.

Once the concept of satanism entered the picture, the defense ran with it. As far as I know the original idea came from a full page ad paid for by a group called "Friends of McMartin." The title, in 72 point font, "WITCHHUNT-Salem 1683, Manhattan Beach, 1983." Every chance the "friends" got they would cry "witchhunt" in the media and it grew from there.

I spoke to a therapist not long ago and asked her if she thought satanism was involved in our case. She told me there definitely were ritualistic aspects to the torture our children suffered.

I also read an excellent thesis written by Dr. Dale Griffis on Mind Control. Methods of breaking down the victim described in his paper matched those described by our children.

Eventually, thousands of people came forward and claimed they were tortured and molested by satanic type cults. Their accounts can't be ignored. The propaganda of a very powerful group called FMSF [False Memory Syndrome Foundation] which is behind virtually all of the "urban legend," "there were no tunnels," and "there was no evidence" theories vigorously saturates all research on the abuse of children. If people really think the district attorney would file such massive charges based on "no evidence" then they should be putting their efforts toward changing the legal system.

McMartin gets cautionary mention because the premise of their "urban legend, satanism" idea is weak. Despite all of the pop literature to he contrary, a legal search on the case will tell a much different story. The way McMartin was handled in the media is an embarrassment. The case needs to be analyzed closer since I understand many colleges actually base courses on it. A 5 year study was done by UCLA (Behind the Playground Walls, 1991, Waterman, Kelly, Oliveri, McCord, Guilford Press) You won't find it mentioned in the FMSF or IPT Journal (the journal of FMSF). Geeze...they spent a tremendous amount of money and energy putting out lies to protect child abusers.


I'm interested in your thoughts on Judy Johnson, the parent who first reported sexual abuse at McMartin, and was later diagnosed as suffering from paranoid schizophrenia and died of alcohol poisoning. Debunkers of McMartin allege that her diagnosis and death are indicative of the spurious character of the claims. I presume you knew her before the abuse surfaced. Did her mental illness precede the claims of abuse, or could the knowledge of the bizarre and horrific abuse precipitate her illness?

I am glad you asked about Judy. She was never, repeat never, diagnosed with any mental illness, much less schizophrenia. That is a great example of how a lie gets repeated over and over until people just take it for a fact without questioning.

She was allergic to alcohol. She told me that, but started drinking to escape the horror that her life had become. This was before all of the wonder drugs we have today that allow us to escape reality. Her liver eventually gave out and she was found dead on her kitchen floor. Her Ex husband, Bernard had reported her to Social Services because her older child had an inoperable brain tumor. He passed away a few years after Judy. Judy was keeping him home from school with a tutor. Of course after McMartin she was reluctant to put her youngest back in pre school in this community, as we all were. I used to go to the criminal courts building where custody hearings used to be heard to keep her and her children company in the hallways while writing sometimes hours to have her case heard. She could not afford a good attorney so it was easy for her ex to go after her. The thing that really angered me is that the father wanted the children taken away but he did not want custody. Bernard had run off with a younger woman.

Few people took the time to get to know her or help her in the crisis her family was going through. All of the other parents were caught up in their own nightmares.

She came to meet me after repeatedly seeing my name mentioned in the local newspaper associated with the trial and other related occurrences.

We became friends because we were both going through a nasty divorce and were struggling to feed our children. My child is the same age as hers and we would get together for play dates. We commiserated about having to feed our children popcorn for dinner because we were both living on so little money. We talked about our divorces. She did tell me what she was going through and I met and talked to her father and her brother. I asked them about some of the claims that were being made about her.

I have to assume that people must know that if a doctor diagnoses abuse he is mandated to report it. Judy, of course, followed up with a police report, as we all did.

The claims were not just made by one person. There were more than 500 reports made to the police. Manhattan Beach has a population of over 35,000 people. Reports substantiating claims of abuse by the employees at McMartin came from as far away as China and Hawaii where families had moved. Victims did not all know each other and the children ranged from age 2 1/2 to 35+ years old. They had exactly the same claims as those of us who still lived in town.

Judy was never formally named as a witness but her 3 year old son was the 42nd witness. Judy had passed away before the trial got around to calling him. Bernard refused to let him testify. The boy must have been about 7 by the time he was called.

You can't explain what happened to Judy without knowing about Glenn Stevens, one of the State's prosecutors assigned to our case that went over to the other side after he was fired. I asked Lael Rubin, (currently a special counsel to Los Angeles head D.A. Steve Cooley who helped establish his office's Brady Policy and Alert System for prosecutors to check out witnesses), our lead prosecutor what really happened to Stevens. She told me he was told to put his resignation on then head District Attorney Reiner's desk before noon Friday or he would be fired-essentially, he had no choice (News reporters substantiated this) for leaking information to the press (specifically the Los Angeles Times).

Mr. Stevens would frequently make jokes at Judy's expense and the defense would latch on to them not only for a good laugh, but Friends of McMartin really though they were facts. Stevens was keeping a diary of his life during the trial seemingly with expectations of writing a book featuring himself as the hero.

The next mistake he made was accepting Abby Mann's invitation to be wined and dined during an in depth interview for the HBO drama "Indictment." Copies of his inebriated interview were passed around and he emerged as the fool he really is.


I hope to have more from Jackie soon.


By the way, Jerky, of the decidedly non-workplace safe DailyDirt.com, has posted the transcripts of a three-part boozy interview he conducted with me a couple of months back here, here and here. I don't think anyone's captured my rambling incoherence quite so well.

This is why I'm a writer. We like our turds polished.

79 Comments:

Blogger bin'dare said...

She said it load and clear:
"I can't speak for all of the parents and families, but I can tell you that the trial was about child molestation, not satanism. ...
Once the concept of satanism entered the picture, the defense ran with it."


KEEP SATAN OUT OF THIS

10:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't drink alcohol, especially during interviews, we all need your brain in tact.

You're very precious and valuable.

3:21 PM  
Blogger sfmike said...

I found your interview with Jerky fascinating. Sometimes unpolished turds are the most interesting. And do drink a good Canadian beer for me.

3:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Greetings Jeff and fellow readers,

Your recent posts on Satanic abuse and finally today's on McMartin made me decide to check out some of the reported cases in Britain, where I live.

One of the first results I got is this 'Joint Enquiry Team' JET Report into a big incest abuse case in Broxtowe, Nottingham which got tagged as Satanic. It seems social workers tended to buy the Satan stuff, the police didn't, claiming no evidence, but were suspected of just being negative. This joint enquiry, carried out by cops and social workers together, was a detailed re-investigation of everything, including evidence for Satanic abuse in history and contemporaneously.

My impression is these people are on the level and very thorough. Their conclusion: no empirical, physical evidence anywhere, any time of Satanic stuff. Just kids' alleged statements, often as hearsay in court by enthusiastic 'experts'.

Sorry, but 'The Crucible' got it about right, 'The Devil Rides Out' is just entertaining fantasy. Wealthy degenerate perverts, using Masonic or crime contacts to protect themselves, quite possible. The other stuff is exactly the same product as it was in the 16th and 17th centuries, surely. The link is below. One sentence sticks out, as I've been operating on the same principle for years. I commend it to you Jeff, and all your readers: "In view of this scenario and our research into American cases we would not accept that any literature from the USA is reliable unless it is supported by corroborative empirical evidence."

The link follows. It's the full Report. If anyone sees any flaws, I'd be interested.

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dlheb/Default.htm

I'm an avid reader of Rigorous Intuition and applaud your determination to keep an open mind. This is a little contribution to the 'rigorous' side. My intuition tells me this stuff can only be believed when there's a lot of credulous, rabid religiosity and a deal of social pressure. I think these instances in Britain are down to some people just desperate to be modern, often wrongly imagined to mean 'American' over here.

Last thing I thought you might enjoy: a very Trotsky-cum-Thomas Pynchon coincidence. The year of the last prosecution for witchcraft in England was 1944 - the same year that London was attacked by V2 missiles.

4:28 PM  
Blogger Jeff said...

Thanks for the post; I appreciate your open mind, too!

I wonder if you've seen reports of the subsequent study commissioned by the British Department of Health which concluded that Satanic abuse was real. I've mentioned it a couple of times, the first occasion here. (An Independent headline of 2000 concerning the report read "Satanic abuse no myth, say experts.")

4:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jeff, I like your site, I read it regularly, while I am convinced that there may indeed be ritual satanic abuse of children conducted on a massive scale by elites, if you want me to think that much of what you write is not speculative fiction, I am going to need a bit more convincing on the McMartin Preshool case. Here is a convincing rebuttal to the idea of tunnels under the building itself - please scroll down to "page 11". Apparently 1)the tunnels described by the children were accessed trough trap doors in various parts of the main building but 2)I am convinced that this building was built on a concrete slab that 3)did not have any openings or breaks in it, therefore there were no tunnels under the preshool building. Also I heard & read a lot about the prosecuters & investigators who worked the case at the time - many of them were evangelical wackos. Can you help me out? Or is this yet another font of fringe "learning" like rense.com or infowars? Thanx

5:10 PM  
Blogger Jeff said...

Here are some links that may help you out (and not a Rense or Infowars in the lot):

Archaeological Investigations of the McMartin Preschool Site by E. Gary Stickel, Ph.D

The Dark Tunnels of McMartin by Dr Roland Summit

The Pedophocracy, Part IV: McMolestation by David McGowan

McMartin Preschool Revisited by Alex Constantine

Paul and Shirley Eberle: a Strange Pair of Experts

5:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Following my last post, about Broxtowe, I am warming to the theme. There are some very strange stories in Britain, which I would welcome being investigated. They make me thing that the angle in which you're presently interested, is more likely to be found when no-one else is crying "Satan!"

1. Fred and Rose West. Longterm degenerate perverts and sadistic mass murderers for 20 years but had a charmed life so far as law enforcement was concerned in Gloucester. One ghastly detail about some of their victims about which I have read no explanation was the removal, and absence of, small bones of fingers. I did read someone claim that these bones have occult significance. Were Fred and Rose connected and protected?

2. Another very strange one, which had such a processed feel to its resolution - all those red flags, you know. The Soham murders and the whole treatment of the convicted man - interrogation and trial - have a lot of singularities unstressed in the official version.

How many lust-driven solo child-killers take 2 victims? Have you ever heard of cops calling in psychiatrists because their suspect is cracking up and about to confess? Huntly confessed, right? Not in court. He was said to have confessed to the trick-cyclists who the police weirdly thought were the best ones to hear him. No clear motive occurs for Huntly's acts - no lust pay-off. He invites them in, kills them and sets about getting rid of the bodies, for no reason. Huntly was hot for kids, right. He seems to have been the kind of guy who went for 'jailbait' as show-off girlfriends. Isn't this a different type to the sort who go for 10/11 year olds? Throughout the case, the proximity of a very large USAF base was referred to as if it was a simple physical feature, not a place with thousands of male adults. I don't believe there was any investigation of any Americans, even though the bodies were found next to the base. There is no forensic. Huntly's confession isn't internally consistent and doesn't match the physical facts - you can't get 2 bodies into the trunk of his car. The foreign press remarked on Huntly's mental state at the trial, not recognising relatives, unable to remember under questioning. There is the possibility of fabricated evidence (no blood on the found-at-Huntly's-workplace soccer shirts). Several police forces, the Home Office, criminal mental hospital doctors as well as the British media all meshed together to produce the 'Huntly did it' conclusion and to bury the points above, all of them. The fix came from high up, and so the stakes must have been high. This basic outlline is dealt with in more detail on Joe Vialls site. I know he habitually overstates and throws in gratuitous racism, as well as gratuitous errors, as if deliberately forfeiting credibility. Stick to the facts of this one, think about them. The case looks compellingly different afterwards. Pretty hard to go in to bat for a convicted man in this case but there's no way that was on the level.

3rd is the more familiar Dunblane massacre with which you dealt recently. No question he was connnected and protected.

5:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

KEEP SATAN OUT OF THIS...place hands over ears, make 'lalalalalala' sound...

Guess what? There are actually people who practice the black arts, assiduously, and have done so over time. This is one of THOUSANDS of documented cases.

Those who attempt to deny Satanic Ritual Abuse are desperately looking for something to take them off the hook of having to deal with the admittedly unpleasant reality of the subject.

"There are no tunnels!" One wonders, what do those folks do when confronted with the photographs of the tunnels? Repent, apologize, say "I led myself to be deceived; I deceived myself,"? No, not typically. They grasp at whatever straws they have to grasp at to KEEP themselves off the hook of having to DEAL. Grasping at straws like "ah-HA! FAKED TUNNEL PHOTOS!", or something to that effect. The phenomenon is called Cognitive Dissonance.

In forums, this affliction is often accompanied by attacking of the messenger, block capitals, exclamation points, and curse words.

5:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I am going to need a bit more convincing on the McMartin Preshool case."

"The project unearthed not one but two tunnel complexes as well as previously unrecognized structural features which defied logical explanation. Both tunnel complexes conformed to locations and functional descriptions established by children's reports. One had been described as providing undetected access to an adjacent building on the east. The other provided outside access under the west wall of the building and contained within it an enlarged, cavernous artifact corresponding to children's descriptions of a "secret room".

5:43 PM  
Anonymous occult investigator said...

Jeff: There's also a workplace safe version of the interview posted over here:

http://www.dirtfiles.com/

5:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"People magazine sent a reporter to interview Dr. Stickel. She reported to headquarters the remarkable misunderstanding that the project found nothing.
Hearing this I called Dr. Stickel, who was dumbfounded: "I told her the children said there were tunnels and we found tunnels. It was as simple as that." With some inside pressure, the magazine researched a more definitive appraisal of the project but it was bumped by more urgent priorities of space, perhaps by an unexpected celebrity marriage or divorce.

5:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I did read your post about the 'new' report. I'm not sure it is really new. This is the same people involved from the British Medical Journal 1994. I read Professor La Fontaine speak recently about the 'new' report in the most scathing terms possible about the methodology of Hale and Sinason. Real stake-my-reputation-its-utterly-worthless stuff. Also, when I find someone attempting to adduce proof of a conspiracy's existence by pointing to its skill at leaving no physical traces, I think I know who's bullshitting.

From British Medical Journal 11 June 1994

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/308/6943/1527/a

Claims of widespread satanic and ritual abuse of children in Britain were dismissed by a government report last week. The study was carried out by Jean La Fontaine, former professor of anthropology at the London School of Economics. She looked into 144 allegations of group abuse by paedophile rings and abusive families, as well as 84 cases in which ritual abuse was specifically alleged. The report echoes the findings of a six month investigation in the Netherlands that also found no evidence of ritual abuse of children (see p 1188, 30 April).

Valerie Sinason, a child psychotherapist, and Dr Robert Hale, a psychiatrist, both from the Tavistock Clinic in London, issued a statement last week criticising the report's findings. "Ritual abuse," it said, "involves highly sophisticated organisation to ensure that as little evidence remains of any activities as possible."

There may be more things than are dreamt of in my philosophy, but I'm a materialist. I believe in evidence. If something happens, it leaves traces. For something to have happened, it has to be possible. Try a Sherlock Holmes story for inspiration, perhaps.

Incidentally, I also noticed your reference to the London police estimate of a thousand or so African kids for whom the documentation seems flimsy. I know this came out of a potential ritual death of one African child. Over here in England, I heard the cop who headed the enquiry who produced the estimate being interviewed pretty thoroughly. I think they were shocked at what they found when they went looking at Africans in the UK. It seemed that many Africans' attitude to official paperwork was creative and haphazard, rather than the cops having any specific fears for children. In 2 recent court cases involving cruelty to children by Africans, (the most recent involving a belief the child was a witch) the relationship of the victims to the adults was ambiguous and falsified - an apparent mother was not even the aunt she claimed to be, a father was not a father. I believe the report is about the risk to African children of this type of 'ordinary' domestic cruelty and neglect, while the authorities clearly have very imperfect knowledge of exactly who these African kids are and how many of them and where they are. I really don't think it's about organised depredations. It's just been proved in court that at least some Africans can just start calling a kid and witch and are capable of cruel, and so murderous, acts in consequence.

How's this for a Press Code of Conduct: "whenever a story features bad or foolish behaviour by Third Worlders, you should end the report with the last instance of the same in your country, or similar" ?

Best wishes.

6:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"A former Hermosa Beach police officer named Paul Bynum, who had been hired by the parents of victims as a private investigator, turned up dead on the eve of his scheduled testimony as well. His death by gunshot was ruled a suicide, though those close to Bynum dispute that finding to this day.
Among other things, Bynum may have testified about his examination of the tunnel excavation project conducted at the school site."

Denial team, say it with me: "Uncovering all that evidence of simple mass-hysteria must have driven him to suicide...

6:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jeff, and fellow readers,

I just sampled a fair bit of the IPT report which a poster at 5.10pm referred us. This McMartin story looks like a bunch of crap, I have to say.

Reluctant as I am to stoop to ad hominem attacks, just look at the company you're in if you give this credence. These idiots are right about unseen forces from on high messing with their lives, but this is an hallucinatory projection.

As for the last poster, about the dead investigator, you're exactly the kind of credulous paranoiac I'm talking about. If you have something you think is evidence, I think you should state it and explain exactly how it is evidence. Your proof this wasn't a suicide first. Then some kind of proof that he was killed to prevent his testimony. What evidence is there of what he might have said, shown, proved, had he made it to court? He died before the trial, therefore he must have been killed because of the trial, is not, on its own, actually very convincing. Of course, I must be part of the denial team, a transatlantic intervention on behalf of one of those conspiracies so brilliant it never leaves any traces and controls any and all public officials, and any other investigators. Any contradiction must indicate being part of this conspiracy.

I am definitely not flying on this craft, with this crew, Jeff.

7:11 PM  
Anonymous sw said...

I see my life experience as a microcosm of this issue of organized, child sexual abuse rings.

When my Dad first came forward about the false memory group around 1994, I wasn't sure at first who the group was backing. Were they saying my memories were false or were they saying my Dad's memory of nothing happening was false? Our memories were clearly in conflict.

My Dad said my therapist implanted these memories. I told him I figured out I had been abused myself first and then sought out therapy to help me deal with the memories.

My sister said she was abused by Dad as well. Mom said I brainwashed my sister who is one year older than I am. My sister, who I "brainwashed" is an educated upper middle class adult woman. My siblings did not believe me when I came forward even though they knew my sister backed me up.

About a year later,under great pressure from my family, my older sister recanted all of the abuse she had described in detail during the previous year.

My younger brother told his wife 15 years ago when they got married that his goal in life was to be nothing like my Dad. He does not remember saying that now. My older brother was present one day when my Dad dragged my sister away from the dinner table by her hair and threw her into the family room. My brother was home from college that weekend and just sat watching the violence. He later went upstairs to his room like nothing happened. I asked him about it about 15 years ago and he has no memory of the incident.

End Point: Even though my family all lived in the middle of the "war zone" of our home, they all say we had a great childhood now except me. If I cannot convince them of my/ our abuse, I sure as heck am not going to get anyone else to believe me.

I even have a video tape where my two older siblings were practically ripping me to shreds. Dad had video tapped the whole incident. No one thinks there is anything odd about having a taped scene of a five year old child being kicked around. No one asks why my Dad was taping this scene or why he did not intervene.

My parents say I got to be MPD/ DID from having too many head ex-rays as a child. Imagine that.

As pathetic as it sounds, I even bought into the lies. Maybe this is too personal to say but it is an example of how I bought into the lies. My sister and I would take a bath together as young children growing up. One of my first memories was screaming because the soap was "burning" my genital area. Same with my sister. My mom told us for years that Mister Bubble caused both of our genitals to burn as kids.

I was about 35 years old when it finally dawned on me that Mister Bubble was not the problem.

To make a long story shorter, I can't get my family to believe me and THEY WERE THERE!

I spent some time today reading about the McMartin case and it all seems so similar to my stuff but on a wider scale.

7:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does anyone know the Tony Joe White classic track: "They Caught The Devil And They Put Him In Jail In Eudora, Arkansas"? If not, I really recommend it. Give it a spin, if you haven't heard it in a while.

8:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"one of those conspiracies so brilliant it never leaves any traces..."

NO TRACES...

NEW ORLEANS – “There were ritualistic acts that were going on. There were pentagrams drawn, and the children would be placed inside the pentagram,” Tangipahoa Sheriff Daniel Edwards said of an alleged child-sex-abuse ring at the Hosanna Church in Ponchatoula.

"Tangipahoa Parish Sheriff Daniel Edwards said Friday that members of a Ponchatoula church cult accused of sexually abusing children and animals told detectives they carried out the practices for years as part of a devil-worshipping ritual involving cat blood."

"This is hard to talk about and harder to believe, but some of the suspects have told us their intention in all of this was devil worshipping," Edwards said."

So, multiple crazy, self-hating confessing people admitted (on record) their actual participation in a non-sectarian (but physically church-based) child sex club...

But they were all gripped simultaneously by an IDENTICAL hallucinatory projection in which they ADDED ON a scandalous (but groundless) 'Satanism' layer to their confessions.

The Sheriff taking the confessions, duped into believing in this extra kink, reported same to a NYT reporter, who swallowed it, hook line and sinker...

A couple weeks later, the Sheriff came to his senses, stating: 'nope, no Satanism, here...just a bad, church-based (but NOT SATANTIC!) recreational child sex club...'

Set things straight for afflicted credulous paranoics everywhere by support the thesis above...

8:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"After viewing the videotaped interviews of the preschoolers, Bynum concluded that the children had indeed been sexually abused at the school.

Bynum was ordered to testify at Buckey's trial. On the morning he was scheduled to testify, Bynum was found dead from a gunshot wound.

Although his death was ruled a suicide, the Manhattan Beach weekly newspaper the Easy Reader stated that Bynum's close friends couldn't think of any reason why he would commit suicide."

9:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I believe in evidence. If something happens, it leaves traces."

TRACES, THAT WORD AGAIN. YES, I'M A REALIST, MYSELF. I LIKE TRACES. SO DO SOBER REALISTS, LIKE DISTRICT ATTORNEYS...

"District Attorney Ira Reiner, without bothering to have the area beneath the school excavated, declared that the children's accounts of tunnels were false."

Geez, the DA, important guy! HE knows it's just 400 separate False Memories...no credulous paranoic, he...

(Enter Credulous Paranoic, Gunderson)

"Mr. Gunderson wisely enlisted the aid of five earth scientists and forensic geologists from major universities."

I'm sure they'll PROVE it's a False Memory! Ira will be proud! My 'sane me is surrounded by hundreds of hallucinatorily- projecting, credulously-paranoid children!' world view will be preserved!

"As Gunderson's team of professionals commenced excavations at the spot that a former preschooler claimed had been a tunnel entrance, the Los Angeles Times began a series of articles ridiculing the effort."

Ridiculing the effort? The LA Times? Big, important paper! Sober realists, they. No credulous paranoia for them. They MUST know, to be using such a tone.

"When the excavation team did, in fact, not only discover a tunnel, but also turtle shells and the bones of more than two hundred animals, the newspaper ended its snide articles with a single-paragraph statement which tersely stated that "evidence" of tunnels had been revealed."

Oh...my...there ARE actually tunnels?

"...it was found that the roots of an avocado tree had been cut with a saw in order to clear a path for the tunnel. This disproves the media claim that the tunnel system, which extended for approximately sixty feet, was the work of a large animal."

A 'large animal'...phew, I was getting nervous, there! That explains it...

So the sober investigator, who wants traces...presented with a tunnel...even a GIANT ANIMAL TUNNEL...must accept that the kids with the False Memories remembered an ACTUAL tunnel...

So, did they GET abused in a tunnel, or did they just happen to fake a memory of a tunnel that happened to be real?

"...an intensive investigation which included interviews with about four hundred children. The children alleged that Satanic rituals, which involved sexual molestation, occurred in the tunnels and at other locations. Commonality in the description of the alleged rituals given by the interviewed children was noted by the investigators, who concluded that at least forty-one of the children had been sexually molested."

Wait, what's that gem of a quote? Let me go find it...

"hallucinatory projection"

So, we've got FOUR HUNDRED children projecting hallucinatorily IN COMMON alleging they were abused in an underground tunnel...

A tunnel which we're first told (shrill cackle) doesn't exist!

But then, when we FIND the tunnel, see pictures, walk around in it...we're told it's a BIG ANIMAL TUNNEL...

But the memories are False - the 400 kids just got lucky. When we're told 'um, not a big animal'...well, we don't talk about it anymore. Because we are the dissonantly cognitive.

"The trial began in 1987 and ended in 1990 with the acquittal of Mrs. Buckey, which is surprising since she testified that she was only employed by the preschool for a few weeks; this is contradicted by payroll records which indicate that she worked at the school for several years."

She must be having a False Memory, lying under oath about her employment. Must have slipped her mind, poor woman, caught up in a storm of False Accusation by all these crazy witch trial kids...

Please support:

'Innocent childcare providers were unjustly attacked by hundreds of credulously-paranoid children who are hallucinatorily projecting with marked commonality!' Their parents were dupes, taken in. The examining physicians were...um...

10:30 PM  
Anonymous Space Weasel said...

I've met child-abusers, and I've met Satanists. I'll take those as proven from my own experience. I'll readily accept the idea of child-abusing Satanists, because it seems a fairly logical combination. The existence of such isn't a very extraordinary claim, nor should it require a very extraordinary proof.

The things being claimed in the McMartin case go far beyond that, though. Among the other claims made were that one boy was raped by a lion, who was in turn assaulted by an elephant; that the children were transported to and from Long Beach in a hot air balloon; and that some of their tormentors were witches who flew through the air. These are extraordinary claims, and they do require extraordinary proof.

So far I've not seen that proof, or anything close to it. The evidence for of the existence of tunnels is doubtful, at best. I've heard no plausible theories about how the dirt to fill them in was sneaked into the school while the trial was ongoing, and the building and grounds were objects of intense national interest. It's a downright shame that the photos said to document the tunnels turned out so dark as to fail to show the soil features claimed. It's equally a shame that the state of the concrete foundation slab wasn't documented with photographs before cutting through it to begin digging. It's almost impossible to patch concrete so that it won't show. It doesn't help that the chief child witness couldn't point out Ray Buckey from a photograph of the school staff, after relating numerous and involved accounts of his evildoing.

If there are good photographs showing any of the claimed physical evidence (the boundary marks in the soil, the patched concrete, the Disney wrapper in situ), I'd be eager to see them. Until I've seen better evidence, I'm left to conclude that the admittedly perjorative phrase 'satanic panic' best describes what happened here.

A good detailed discussion of the case can be found at IPT Forensics . IMHO, the information presented here pretty much demolishes the idea (among others) that tunnels existed under the building.

Religious Tolerance gives a nice short summary of the case against the tunnels.

Apart from this single instance, I've found RI to be thought-provoking and entertaining. I don't necessarily agree with all, or even most of the conclusions offered, but you make strong cases and present intriguing evidence.

4:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Right on, Space Weasel.

It is obvious what you have to cope with in the USA. There is far too much emphasis on "believing" in the whole culture as it is. This particular instance seems to be the credulous led by the downright barking mad.

Interestingly, tunnels in victims' imaginations feature quite strongly in the Broxtowe, Nottingham case in the UK I linked to. The investigators there spend quite a bit of time on tunnels and secret rooms in the victims' consciousness. The victims are little kids. They get encouraged to write a script by 'adults' with some axe to grind. (Read the pages of leading questions put to these traumatised children.) They're very obliging, and imaginative, as kids tend to be. They use stuff they know, like stories and films in which secret rooms and tunnels commonly feature. 'Adults' then act as if this must be solid testimony, or else they're so delusional, they've lost contact with reality.

There were certainly no tunnels or secret rooms in Nottingham, England. Read. The barminess is carefully linked to its American origins in the JET Report.

Consider how widespread in the USA are religious beliefs which in urban, industrial Europe are frankly laughed at. If a guy in Europe talked about God the way Bush does, for instance, he would probably not be trusted with managing, say, a small shop - unless his dad owned it, possibly. A substantial chunk of the American populace thinks like 16th century peasants and is proud of it. It's so much less effort than actually thinking, I suppose.

6:38 AM  
Blogger Jeff said...

"The things being claimed in the McMartin case go far beyond that, though. Among the other claims made were that one boy was raped by a lion, who was in turn assaulted by an elephant"

From Roland Summit's The Dark Tunnels of McMartin:

Judy Johnson was quite sane and emotionally contained even as she described the improbable complaints of her child "He doesn't like to talk about being buried alive or about large animals or that he was sodomized by a lion". (3) Such complaints were unheard of in 1984, but they made more sense as older, less credulous children in the Netherlands (1987), England (1988) and North Carolina (1989) made quite independent observations that the wild animals had zippers on their costumes.

7:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jeff,

Your use of the phrase "quite independently" to characterise the 'testimony' of children in these cases goes to the root of the fallacious nonsense which surrounds them. The last thing this testimony can be described as, in the cases enquired into in the UK, is independent. On the contrary, the children are very obviously urged and prompted, repeatedly, to concoct stories to the satisfaction of adults who are very clearly, and persistently, interested in a particular product. Then there is every possible kind of contamination and collusion. In the Nottingham (England, 1988) case, the 'testimony' takes the case of reported conversations, drawings, stories etc. It's all laid out in the report, all of it. It is evidence of nothing, except adult prompting. The connexion between the contents of the "Satanic indicators", peddled by crazy Yanks to English buffoons, and the subsequent 'testimony' of these exploited children is made crystal clear. Try reading the report. I see no cover-up. Can you? What about the proposition that there has never been any corroborative evidence of this alleged aspect of (sometimes) real predation of children? Never, any time, any place. I thought we were on an open-minded, but evidence-based, enquiry. I don't see that belief has a role to play in this. I believe in evidence. Evidence is all we have, or else we're back in the 16th century.

As far as McMartin goes, what about the stories of transportation by hot-air balloon to distant locations for abuse? If that's not credible, even in California, how do you decide which bits of this nonsense are real testimony? Tunnels and secret rooms are first dug beneath a school, and are then filled in while the school is widely known as being the subject of sensational allegations. How come none of these parents managed to get a photo of workmen, excavating gear, dumpsters? Where were the (how many exactly?) trapdoors through the concrete slab of the floor? As to the zippers on the lion suits, little kids don't know about zippers, I guess. It couldn't be like the secret room which was first next to the school, then when it couldn't be found, was then under the school. This couldn't be a case of changing the story, could it? As to the witness who didn't make it to the trial, it sounds like he was planning to give an "expert" opinion on what these little kids said on video. Hardly irreplaceable. I'm sure another such "expert" was near to hand. More hot air, sounds like. The DA, the cops and every other investigator are all committed to a cover-up, to say nothing of the jury, after 6 months of 'evidence'.(The same in the UK? The Netherlands?) Only these kids and the adults pressuring them with leading questions know the truth, of course. I have to say, things seem even worse than I suspected in what is widely seen as the United States of Stupidity.

To apply your approach to these interesting, if alarming, phenomena of mass delusion to, let's say, the witch-craze in 16th century Germany would show that each new case was independent verification of all the previous ones. The testimonies are all so similar, after all. After 300 years it's obvious what was going on, surely. I can't say that I find the 'testimony' of 10,000 gullible peasants any stronger than the first one.

Words are starting to fail me on this. This is not merely a dead end, it's an utter embarrassment. Remember in those cheesy old vampire films, when the village men gather with burning brands and pitchforks before going up to the castle? At best, you're coming over as if you want to be Van Helsing on this. As I urged, try Sherlock Holmes instead of Bram Stoker, or maybe Grissom in 'CSI' for an update.

9:30 AM  
Anonymous sw said...

I've spent the last 13 years working through abuse memories of all types. Much of the sexual and physical abuse was at the hands of my father all throughout my childhood. There was also abuse from other men in politics from Boys Town and then more abuse by our parish priest.

I have MPD / DID because of the severe and long term abuse. I've worked through most of the abuse memories and hope to be free of these memories and parts very soon. (I have integrated about 35 parts.)

Over the years, I have listened to parts tell their stories of abuse. The parts were of all ages and were both male and female. I am a female but it seems that when the abuse was brutal, a male child was created to handle that episode of abuse.

Much of the sexual abuse was the same but what totally varied was how the parts decribed the abuse. The 3 to 5 year olds described the horror in totally different ways than the older parts who were in elementary school. My therapist was great with children so it made it easier on the young ones to talk about the abuse. My psychiatrist was a great guy too. I saw him for therapy each week as well. He was great, but he did not work with the young ones as well as my primary therapist specifically when they were telling a sexual abuse memory.

When I read about the McMartin case and some of the interviews, it reminded me of listening to my parts describe abuse.

One three year old described the female abuser as the dragon lady. He said she turned into a dragon sometimes and could blow fire out of her mouth. He said sometimes she was a teacher lady and was nice. What he meant was that this caregiver was very nice (like a teacher) to him when she was around others. When they were alone, she became a dragon lady.

He told my therapist he could fly just like Peter Pan and that sometimes he would fly to get away from her. When he was asked about being molested, he asked my therapist if she knew King Midas. She said yes, and he was very pleased. He said, that is how the abuse feels. She puts her hand on me right here (he would point to a place on his body) and then he said the icky feeling would spread through his body just like it did when King Midas touched something. (Things turned to gold when King Midas touched things in cartoons.)

Another same age part said that the devil lived in the basement. She said the devil was taller than a building and was dark and evil. She also said he could breath fire out of his mouth. (The hot breath made them always think of evil dragon breath.)

Often, the Young Ones (that is what I called the group of parts who were pre-school ages) would say that no one hurt them. They would give an elaborate rape descrition and then say they made it all up. (They got terrified later that my parents would kill them for telling.)

For a lot of the sexual abuse, there was not much to describe. It was dark. They didn't really know what was happening except they were scared and their body was being hurt in their private parts. They often did not know where they were. Sometimes they would say what they were wearing, if someone else was in the room, if it was dark or light in the room or if they were sitting or standing.

One time my psychiatrist was asking specific questions to a young part about what had happened in a sexual abuse incident. This doctor was using all of the real names to body parts. He was talking to him like he was older. This whole line of questioning alarmed and terrified the young one. He refused to talk anymore and totally shut down.

Later that week he went to see my other therapist and he cried about the talking with that scary man. (My doctor). She was really soothing. She said he didn't have to be scared and no one would ever, ever hurt him again. She talked to him about non scary stuff so he was involved in a big conversation when she started asking non threatening questions to him. She asked if someone hurt him where is bathing suit was. He was not scared by this type of questioning so he went into detail. He said the bathing suit part happened in the kitchen and then the hand thing happened in the family room. He also included his feelings about Peter Pan and asked if this therapist knew Peter Pan.

Another young part once came out to see my doctor. She did not understand that a person might be "good or bad" she thought that their body parts were bad. She asked my doctor if she could see his hands. He held his hand up so she could see it. She just sat there for a long minute looking at his hand, not moving. She then asked very softly if his hand was a good hand or a bad hand? He said his hand was a good hand. She then asked if his hand had ever hurt anyone. He said , no, his hand had never hurt anyone.

The young ones were very afraid of the treads on shoes. It ends up that they were abused by men wearing army type boots. The doctor had to be careful to keep both of his feet flat on the ground when he spoke to a few parts in the beginning. If he would cross his legs and they saw his thick treads on his shoes, they would freeze up and not talk anymore.

One little girl was not afraid of priests but she was terrified of black priest pants. She did not want to go to a church. She did not want to go in a confessional.

My hopes in describing all of this was to show how little ones respond to abuse and abuse questioning sometimes.

12:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tunnels projectingly hallucinated, got it.

So, the LA Times says, grudgingly, "there's evidence of tunnels", and the "it's a BIG ANIMAL tunnel" chaff gets blown...

Please elucidate how this fits with the "no tunnel" thesis.

4:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Children’s Institute International determined “a full eighty percent displayed physical symptoms, including vaginal or rectal scarring, anal bleeding, painful bowel movements, and the 'anal wick reflex' associated with violent penetration.”

I am to presume the above is a mass outbreak of a stigmata-like phenomenon? Or is it a massive lie campaign made up of many physicians, who would know their testimony would be used in a court of law?

4:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

More coincidental death for the coincidence theorists...

"At least three-dozen suspects who had been independently identified by numerous witnesses were never indicted at all. One of these was a man named Robert Winkler, who was arrested in neighboring Torrance, California and charged with running a baby-sitting service out of the Coco Palms Motel that authorities described as a front for a sexual abuse ring. Children in the McMartin case recognized Winkler in news footage as the man they had known as the 'Wolfman.' The kids described Winkler as being a frequent visitor to the school, who oftentimes delivered drugs for use in abusive rituals, which were sometimes conducted in churches, a cemetery, or a crematorium. The Wolfman, conveniently enough, turned up dead on the eve of his trial, allegedly of a drug overdose."

4:38 PM  
Anonymous billie rain said...

hi!

thanks for this article. i linked it to my blog. i am a survivor of ritual abuse and have been very disturbed by the knee-jerk denial of many folks to even the possibility of these kinds of activities happening in so-called civilized nations. i saw a mother of one of the McMartin children speak at a survivor conference a couple of years ago and it was both eye-opening and heartbreaking.

take care.

love billie

4:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's a Stupid Peasant for you snotnosed English types, "To lead the project, they hired E. Gary Stickel, Ph.D., a highly regarded archeologist recommended to them by the Chair of the Interdisciplinary Program of the Archeology Department at UCLA."

Stupid? Peasant? You'd think neither, but let's read on:

"Stickel’s résumé included serving as a consultant to George Lucas on the Indiana Jones movies. Also brought on board were several other technical specialists. As Stickel wrote in his report on the excavation, “by engaging a highly recommended professional archeological team, [the parents] hoped to bring scientific authority to whatever might be found or a definitive resolution for whatever was not to be found.”

So, Denial Team, pleae support: "Here we have the Chair of the Interdisciplinary Program of the Archeology Department at UCLA - who is obviously so bent on ruining innocent people's lives with charges of satanism that he will risk his tenure and reputation by carefully crafting baldfaced lies of finding a 'tunnel complex'...oh, wait, maybe he's hallucinatorily projecting, and doesn't KNOW he's lying to himself, because it's an HALLUCINATION...yes, that's it.

Stupid Peasants...

4:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Words are starting to fail me on this. This is not merely a dead end, it's an utter embarrassment. Remember in those cheesy old vampire films, when the village men gather with burning brands and pitchforks before going up to the castle?"

And the cheesy, hallucinating Chair of the Interdisciplinary Program of the Archeology Department at UCLA grabbed his burning brand and ran blathering up to the castle, followed by an army of hundreds of maliciously-led, lying, hallucinating children...whose physical injuries (imagined by themselves) were documented by a group of Physicians who saw what actually wasn't there because they were so swept up by the emotionally-appealing but totally groundless charges against the innocent childcare providers.

"...a majority of the victims "displayed physical symptoms, including vaginal or rectal scarring, anal bleeding, painful bowel movements, and the 'anal wick reflex' associated with violent penetration.”

6:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Denial Team, English section here.

Don't know if you have this phrase in The USA: "If the cap fits, wear it."

Your last, rather overheated post, is what is known as an appeal to authority: "If the great Gary Stickel says it, it must be true." Pretty silly proposition, no? To make it is a sign of feebleness, in itself. To believe this self-originating description of the great Stickel, Ph.D, without checking him out, is you, yourself, proving you are quite stupid.

Pick on someone your own size, why don't you? I criticised some Americans for being fools, just being fools. Some of us think that's fair game for adverse comment. You immediately and correctly suppose I was referring to you. You are egregiously foolish, and vulgarly abusive, in reply. I can't wait to read your response to this. I'll be thinking of you, anyway.

6:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

IT'S A GOOD THING SOMEONE'S STANDING UP AGAINST THE CRAZY STUPID PEASANT KIDS WHO ACCUSE INNOCENT CHILDCARE PROVIDERS OF WRONGDOING. LET'S TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT TWO OF THE BEST:

Paul and Shirley Eberle wrote The Politics of Child Abuse, a book that accuses mothers, mental health professionals, and prosecutors of feeding children stories about sexual abuse. Since the book was published by Lyle Stuart in l986, the Eberles have been cited as experts in sexual abuse trials. They were featured speakers at a conference of the Victims of Child Abuse Laws, a group formed to protect accused parents.

I'M THRILLED! AT LAST, SOMEONE DRAWING A LINE, STEMMING THE TIDE OF INSANITY IN AN IGNORANT NATION GONE MAD!

SO, WHAT'S YOUR BACKGROUND? HOW'D YOU GUYS GET TO BE DOING GOD'S WORK IN THE FORM OF DEBUNKING MALICIOUS-BUT-BASELESS CHILD ABUSE CLAIMS?

"In the 1970's, The Eberles were publishing hard-core pornography. Their publication, Finger, depicted scenes of bondage, S & M, and sexual activities involving urination and defecation. A young girl portrayed with a wide smile on her face sits on top of a man whose penis is inside of her; a woman has oral sex with a young boy in a drawing entitled "Memories of My Boyhood."

The Eberles were the distributors of Finger and several other underground magazines, says Donald Smith, a sergeant with the obscenity section of the Los Angeles Police Department's vice division who followed the couple for years. LAPD was never able to prosecute for child pornography: "There were a lot of photos of people who looked like they were under age but we could never prove it."

NEVER...ABLE...TO PROSECUTE. GOOD THING, ALMOST HAD ANOTHER STUPID PEASANT COP DELUDED BY HALLUCINATING CHILDREN CLAIMING TO BE VICTIMIZED...

'The pictures of young children in Finger are illustrations, and child pornography laws were less rigid a decade ago than they are today.

"Sexpot at Five," "My First Rape, She Was Only Thirteen," and "What Happens When Niggers Adopt White Children" are some of the articles that appeared in Finger. One letter states: "I think it's really great that your mags have the courage to print articles & pixs [sic] on child sex...Too bad I didn't hear from more women who are into child sex...Since I'm single I'm not getting it on with my children, but I know of a few families that are. If I were married & my wife & kids approved--I'd be having sex with my daughters."

Another entry reads: "I'm a pedophile & I think its [sic] great a man is having sex with his daughter!...Since I didn't get Finger #3, I didn't get to see the stories & pics of family sex. Would like to see pics of nude girls making it with their daddy, but realize its too risky to print."

Lyle Stuart plans to print the Eberles' forthcoming book on the McMartins preschool trial. Carole Stuart, the publisher, describes the Eberles as "experts in the field," and family friends "for years."

EXPERTS IN THE FIELD...YES, EXACTLY...

6:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pick on someone your own size, why don't you?

THAT'S WHAT I SAID TO THE CHILD ABUSER...

OH, WAIT, I WAS TAKEN IN BY THE PROJECTED HALLUCINATIONS OF A LIFE-RUINING WITCHCRAFT-ACCUSER WHO'D BEEN LED TO THAT STATE BY A STUPID PEASANT OF A PARENT...

7:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jacques Vallee has written how, with respect to another phenomenon, "carefully contrived official 'explanations'...do not really explain anything, but...provide skeptics with an excuse for dismissing the story." There is an understandable psychological need to live in a world where such things don't happen, so it doesn't take much to persuade most that all child victims must be liars and all adult victims pathological. Undoubtedly people have been falsely accused of ritual abuse, but many more people have been falsely accused of non-ritual rape and murder. Have rape and murder been debunked?

9:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gerald Hobbs, a local tree surgeon for 25 years, did much of the actual digging. Hobbs:

"The children had told two different stories about this tunnel prior to the dig. One, that they had gone through the tunnel and came up in the house next door, and two, they had come up in the garage, which blocked the house from the street. At any rate, the tunnel went in that direction.... That evening I went to the house next door and followed the walk between the school and the house, only about 41/2 feet apart. I went about 30 feet down between the buildings and found a crawl space under the house. I bellied my way toward the southwest corner of the house. After going about 20 feet, I found an area inside the west wall of the house where the floor was cut out. If I remember correctly, the area of floor that was missing was 36" X 38" X 41".16"

10:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Los Angeles Times ran a spate of features poking fun of the excavation team until actual evidence of tunnels was discovered. Then the Times ran a brief news item, one paragraph long, dryly noting that "evidence" of tunnels had been found, and never mentioned the subject again.

10:39 PM  
Blogger gurp13 said...

Doesn't it strike anyone else as odd that someone from the "U.K." would spend so much time arguing against this? And anonymously no less?

12:56 AM  
Blogger gurp13 said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

12:56 AM  
Anonymous Space Weasel said...

Anonymous said:

Stickel’s résumé included serving as a consultant to George Lucas on the Indiana Jones movies.

From IPT's discussion of the case:
"The apparent basis for the claim, according to Lucus spokesperson Lyn Hale, was that the film company's researcher had sat through one of Stickel's extension classes as part of her normal background research for the film. "She talks to lots of people and does a lot of research on lots of different directions . . . she attended one of his classes. He [Stickel] did not work on the movie."


I'll note here that they've consistently mis-spelled "Lucas", and that the spokeswoman's correct name is "Lynn Hale". If you doubt the story, I'd suggest that you write her. She's been Lucas' spokesperson and research assistant for roughly forever. If you're polite, detail your questions, and include a callback number, there's a good chance chance that she'll write back or perhaps even call.

Lynn Hale
c/o Lucasfilm
P.O. Box 10228
San Rafael, CA 94912

The same article makes the assertion that, contrary to his claims, Stickel was never on UCLA faculty, but only taught an extension course on archeology, the same one that Lynn Hale attended when she was doing research for indiana Jones.

Anonymous also seems to have misinterpreted the article from which he (she?) is quoting. Stickel isn't claiming to be "Chair of the Interdisciplinary Program of the Archeology Department at UCLA" - that worthy is whom Stickel claims to have been recommended by. The current holder of the Chair is Dr. Richard Lesure. He's too young to have been Chair in 1990, but I'm sure he'd know who was, and be able to put you in touch with them if they're still around. His office phone is 310.206.2207, if you're interested. He'd certainly be able to verify or deny Dr. Stickel's claims to have been on the faculty, and I suspect he may be able to offer some thoughts on Dr. Stickel's professional qualifications and the methodology of his excavation.

2:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jeff, thanx for the articles. I notice, however, that the various authors primarily rely on a report by a Gary Stickel whereas the IPT link I posted leads to a debunking of Mr. Stickel thereby still leaving us in a morass of confusion. (Here's some more IPT stuff on Mr. Stickel) I appreciate the reference to Gary Hobbs & have found numerous links to him on the web, however many of those links lead to angelfire and other "fringe" websites.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, all I want is clarification - I followed this case in the news at the time & remember these details - 1) there was very little physical evidence of sex abuse on the children 2) there were allegations of tunnels yet no evidence of holes in the slab on which the building stood 3) the prosecuters obviously coached the testimony of the children who testified.

I wish there was more conclusive evidence these days but... The condition of the foundation slab has/had the truth about these tunnels - filled holes, tunnels, no (trapdoor) holes, no tunnels. At least the IPT journal report has some pictures of the slab unlike the Stickel report-based stories.

While there is no limit as to man's capacity for doing evil to others, OTOH anyone involved in any sort of child care is in a dangerous profession as one can be convicted on the flimsiest of evidence. What about the recent case? Are there pictures of the pentagram? Other hard evidence? We live in "interesting" times, in my lifetime alone there have been way too many unexplained events, from the Bay of Pigs to the election thefts of 2004. Some of these are better documented than others but in no case has the "truth" of the matter emerged. Pity I won't be around in 100 years to read what really happened...

10:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Two more McMartin links - religioustolerance.org & wikipedia.org

10:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why, that's remarkable - no bites on the unjust attack on the pillars of the False Memory movement, who defend us from crazy kids who make stuff up...

"Toth showed slides of Finger, including one article titled "Baby Fucking" and the cover photo of the Eberles... naked and intertwined with life-size male and female inflatable dolls."




http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume7/j7_4_2.htm#en2r

The Eberles' vitriolic attack against criminal justice and child welfare professionals is more understandable when one examines the authors' background.

Far from being impartial reporters, the Eberles have for years been active in the Los Angeles pornography subculture.

Their other "journalistic" endeavors, the Center has learned, include the currently available soft-core tabloid, L.A. Star, and a hard-core tabloid, Finger, published in the mid-1970s.

On the cover of one of the seven issues reviewed are the Eberles themselves, naked and intertwined with life-size male and female inflatable dolls.2

Patricia Toth, the director of the NCPCA, repeated similar allegations at least a hundred times (as of 1990) in lectures to child abuse professionals across the country.3 At a 1990 child abuse conference, Toth showed slides of Finger, including one article titled "Baby Fucking" and the cover photo of the Eberles noted above.

The child pornography allegations circulated again after the Eberles' McMartin sequel, Abuse of Innocence, was published in 1993. Jan Hollingsworth's review of Innocence for the Tampa Tribune quotes Tyler as claiming that "For a period of time during the 70s, Paul and Shirley Eberle were the most prolific publishers of child pornography in the United States."6

In a special issue of The Journal of Psychohistory on ritual abuse, editor Lloyd deMause presents Paul and Shirley Eberle as an example of authors of "false memory books" who are not only pedophile advocates but child pornographers.

In the book The Backlash: Child Protection Under Fire ()(), John E. B. Myers questions the Eberles' use of the term "benign pedophilia" to describe the context of the charges against the McMartin defendants. In Politics, the Eberles wrote:

They are charged with what are generally viewed as the most loathsome acts in the entire penal code. There may be crimes of greater magnitude, such as murder and high treason, but none considered quite as detestable. There may be some forms of deviant behavior equally raunchy, but they do not embody the violation of the innocent and defenseless. The acts specified here are not benign pedophilia. What these people are charged with is the forcible rape of infants (italics added).10

Myers also stresses the Eberles' association with Finger, stating that it:

. . . featured explicit articles, photographs, and drawings of children involved in sexual acts, including sodomy and sexual intercourse with adults and other children.11

Myers concludes that the Eberles' past association with Finger reveals the real motivation behind their use of the term "benign pedophilia," which Myers labels as an oxymoron. Except for that "inadvertent reference," Myers complains, "nothing in the book belies the Eberles' alignment with child pornography."12

4:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I quoted what is almost certainly the rule in the UK, or "UK" as one commentary oddly put it:

"In view of this scenario and our research into American cases we would not accept that any literature from the USA is reliable unless it is supported by corroborative empirical evidence."

That would eliminate the disgusting Eberles from consideration over here. Worth thinking about, from an American point of view, might be "In how many other areas do the Limeys think this way? And who else besides the Limeys?" The reason why should be obvious.

11:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I guess we need to work on collecting empirical, period- correct copies of the Eberle-published article "Baby Fucker" for them to hold in their sage, cautious hands.

A 'bleeding anus' photo gallery might also help, although "it was photoshopped! I won't believe it until I touch one with my own hands! I mean they are self-inflicted anus wounds...I mean..." will be the shrill response.

3:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, anon above who posted the http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume7/j7_4_2.htm#en2r
link - did you read the entire article? Dunno about all this but I did read it, the author was not so much criticizing the Eberles as he was actually using them to compare & contrast them against the McMartin prosecuters & their "therapy" teams, notably a Ms. Kee MacFarlane. Here's some of what her team produced (same article, the part you didn't read) - "When the CII therapists finished taking almost 400 children through the seduction process, they had in less than four months out done even the most prolific serial pedophiles and child pornography rings in the production and distribution of child pornography. That process was augmented by television and print journalists who wet the palates of their viewers and readers with generous portions of outrageously hyped stories recounting the sadistic sex fantasies created by CII therapists."

C on a C, what's the point? Leave the X-Files shit out of this, if there were tunnels find me some proof that the slab had holes for the trap doors or find me something a little more credible than Mr. Stickel's report, please. Else maybe the only tunnels there were made of plywood and all the charges came out of the heated mind of perverts like Kee MacFarlane & her buddies. Not all ritual abuse cases are bogus, but until I'm convinced otherwise, this one was a sham.

And if it's conspiracy you want, ever notice the US embassy hostages were released from Iran the very same day that Regean took the oath of office? Iran recieved a large shipment of TOW missles & airplane parts that very same month? The first was on your fucking television that very day, the second is in Iran-Contra testimony. It's called the "October Surprise", GHWB & the BFEE were in it up to their eyeballs, mention it today and all you get are rolled eyes and cries of "traitor" & "communist". Shit, why do we even bother?

4:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, I read the whole article. Yes, "bad, bad people exploit the victims of SRA from a double-blind, supposedly benevolent place, make money off their plight while pretending to 'protect' them from the Eberles." This does, indeed, suck.

So I know they are smearing the Eberles for their own ends, but I thank them opportunistically for doing the legwork for me.

"Baby Fucker" article, published by Eberles, exists. The fact that ANOTHER illuminist bastard shill took care of getting me the information is an aside. One I'm aware of.

97% of people trying to help abused kids are sincere, goodhearted, non-exploitative people. 97% of childcare workers are sincere, goodhearted, non SRA-practicing people.

The ill-willed 3%, on both sides, do their dirty work partly by playing on peoples reasonable presumtion of the 97% goodness mentioned above.

"Protect the weak, the innocent, from exploitation" is to me the most important task. And the Eberles are top on my list at the moment (accusing SRA'd kids of 'making it all up'). The other people making money off the exploitation would be out of a job if no one were successfully practicing it.

6:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Sorry, but 'The Crucible' got it about right, 'The Devil Rides Out' is just entertaining fantasy. Wealthy degenerate perverts, using Masonic or crime contacts to protect themselves, quite possible."

Ok, but paedophile rings involving secret societies hooked in with covert operation mind control experiments can definitely USE satanism as a patsy to cover over what is going on. Why not have bizarre rituals going on in the midst of mind control experimentation -- or implanted suggestions thereof -- so that, when the material is recovered, it is easily dismissable?

Jeff, thank you for printing this stuff, and please keep up the investigation and the good work. It is very important, it is very real, and it is crucial that people not dismiss this highly traumatic conditioning of youth that is happening.

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at 7 my uterus was scarred due to a violent trauma and i have gone back to the childrens institue and watched my interview- i was not coached or instructed as to what i was saying and i shared graphic details about sexual acts that i gad been part of- i had to at the age of 20 reconcile some unexplained details of memories i just couldn't figure out- what i discovered was that i remebered an aniamle sacrafice and am still so petrified by seeing violence i cannot watch it on film ot tv without becoming ill-

IF YOU TRULY BELIEVE THAT WE CHILDREN WERE NOT HURT I CHALLENGE YOU TO MEET ONE OF US AND ASK ABOUT WHAT OUR LIVES HAVE BEEN LIKE SINCE 1983 AND HOW FUCKED UP MOST OF US HAVE BEEN WHETHER OR NOT WE ARE OK NOW THE PAST 20 YEARS HAVE BEEN HELL

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

Since someone here linked to an article in Underwager/Wakefield’s paper Issues in Child Abuse Accusations for a rebuttal of the McMartin tunnels I just want to remind you who the founders of this magazine was. Check http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/NudistHallofShame/Underwager2.html and find out for yourself.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh, my link was cut off. But just go to Google and search for Underwager/Wakefield and you will find their interview in Paidika where they claimed that paedophiles should proclaim that they are doing Gods will. Every person who writes in this magazine must be read with caution.

Kire

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1:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

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7:09 PM  

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