I'm leaving, Captain, I must go
There's blood upon your hand
But tell me, Captain, if you know
Of a decent place to stand - Leonard Cohen
Only time right now for some quick thoughts on Haditha. Or rather, Haditha's elevation as Iraq's official, bad apple atrocity.
Even for those who try to pay attention to what filters through the fog of war crimes, these things tend to run together. Haditha isn't Abu Sifa where, according to Iraqi police, US forces "on a rampage" executed a family of 11, then bombed their house, burned their cars and slaughtered their animals. What more will we hear of Abu Sifa, now Haditha has become the representative and inevitable example of honour's exception?
Because along with Haditha comes Jesse Macbeth, allegedly a former Army Ranger and Iraq war veteran, whose claims that massacre was method rather than madness rapidly went viral on the Net. His story was unsubstantiated and exteme, yet plausible because it was extreme, and provided a template to the pattern of force on exhibit in Iraq. A pattern rarely admitted by the West's institutional media.
But Macbeth, it now appears, is the Pentagon's timely strawman to buttress its case for Haditha's exceptionalism, and to discredit influential anti-war voices such as Iraq Veterans Against the War. Whether unaware or not of his status as a COINTELPRO asset, it doesn't matter, because regardless, Macbeth became a lucky charm for those who refuse to believe the program of horror in which US troops are engaged, and there are many. Similar stories may now be said to have been "debunked," without examination or a straining of battlefield ethics.
It was a scandal 20 years ago when Ronald Reagan - the Bush family's post-Hinkley Zombie-in-Chief - honoured the SS dead at Bitburg, and by turn paid homage to the old fascist "anti-communist" front of the Republican Heritage Groups Council. It was, perhaps, merely a prefigurement of the Nazi stain in America's own blood cult, and what should be a crisis of conscience on Memorial Day.
On supposedly progressive forums I've seen many apologies for Haditha, and for the other Hadithas still cloaked in denial. Don't judge the troops too quickly, or too harshly, some write, because "Hell is full of heroes." Heaven, meanwhile, fills with children.
There is no decent place to stand, not in a massacre.
45 comments:
Sorry Jeff I have posted to you before about this and I really do not care one iota.There are too many people in the world,resources are limited under current economic models and this has always gone on.It's all about real estate and this is just foreplay ,the fucking starts with China, deal with it.As war has become more technologically advanced more civilians have died,look at Goya for gods sake.It's not right, it's not wrong,it just is.... Grow up and quit bitchin....Forward over the fallen and quit moaning over the downsides of Globalisation.Try reading Philip Caputos A Rumour of War.
Anonymous 2:52, if someone would kill your family - would you also say it's not right, it's not wrong, it just is?
With attitudes like that, there truly is no hope for this planet anymore. We might as well push the reboot button right now.
"hell is full of heroes" what the fuck does that mean? Is this a good thing? Is slaughtering people a good thing?
And what's anonymous on about? "Grow up and quit bitchin"? Do we roll over and say this sort of thing is okay just because the 'current economic models' say so? Anonymouth. A-non-entity.
The first "anonymous" poster here is certainly a fellow with his own screwed up head stick up his own disgusting ass. I also think his own understanding of the artistic works he references - Francisco Goya's Disasters of War and Caputo's book -- is also supremely naive. I suggest he take an elementary course in art appreciation at his local university or community college.
"It's not right, it's not wrong,it just is..."
i am so glad some anonymous fuck posted this--it only proves jeff's point (made implicitly and explicitly throughout this entire blog) that there is a cancer in this country that continues to eat at it: a cancerous heritage linked to nazism and fascism and slavery and holocaust and slaughter... anonymousfuck proves it, america! kudos to him for standing up for the 'convictions' of his national socialist fathers. when the police state crushes HIS family, we'll all just laugh a say, "well, fucker, it just IS..."
In the fields the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds
Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the way
Why don't the go out to fight?
They leave that up to the poor
Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait till their Judgement Day comes
Now in darkness world stops turning
Ashes where the bodies burning
No more War Pigs have the power
Hand of God has struck the hour
Day of Judgement, God is calling
On their knees the War Pigs crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Satan laughing spreads his wings
Happy Mammonorial Day
The Anonymous at 2:52 PM, albeit lobotomized by the iron triangle's propaganda, hit upon a major point we should all be aware of.
Iraq, or Iran for that matter, are just foreplay.
The real act occurs when the Empire takes on China.
The only way an industrial power can take on another with ten times its population base is by using what it thinks is its overwhelming advantage.
That would be a massive nuclear strike, incincerating all opposition before it could mobilize, and using its new warfighter technology to mop up everything else.
In the long run, it may be that the Middle Eastern conflagrations are designed to harden the American people to the inevitability of genocide.
Not that it really is inevitable: but it would make ruling a whole lot easier for a government controlled by the military front of the world's largest private equity firm.
"..when the police state crushes HIS family, .."
The problem with that catchy idea is that the participants of empire are mostly assured they have a safe haven *when* the bottom falls out or assume they do more so than smuks like me or you.
Let's face it: Money buys some security;allot of money buys allot of security, and those that have access to it KNOW what's going on and have made plans accordingly.
Unfortunately anon 2:52 isn't that far off in Twilight Zone kind of way- although I do not agree with h/hr ethic morality, there are too many people on earth RIGHT NOW, that is, if they ALL WANT to have a car and drive to the mall - and allot of them are waking up to that idea, which, as it stands now, is impossible.
His nonchelant benign God force mannerism is appalling and is apparent in the Neo-Con World of the Project for a New American Century, which if I'm not mistaken, did address the issues of exactly what is being said here.
Anotherwords: You are either with us or against us. Even if you're with us you might die a horrible death, but you still have a chance albeit a minor one.
To paraphrase:
"They who hold the gold, makes the rules.
Those who hold the gold AND the guns make the reality."
From LRC blog:
A Breakdown in Thinking
Posted by Butler Shaffer at 12:53 PM
News reports inform us that American military officials are now convinced that a unit of Marines killed some 24 unarmed Iraqis, including women and six children. Some of the victims had been shot "execution style." One government official stated that this atrocity showed "a total breakdown in morality."
What on earth do these officials think all war is, if not a "breakdown in morality?" If the systematic slaughter of tens or hundreds of thousands of human beings doesn't represent a "breakdown in morality," what does? Do we have to wait for some major offense, such as illicit sex in the oval office? I would go even further than this: "war is the mobilization of immorality." Would these apologists for such killings have been satisfied if the same deaths to the same innocents had been brought about by aerial bombs? I am reminded of a distinction one of my students tried making a few years ago in contrasting suicide bombers with militarily disciplined killing: "at least we have the decency to drop bombs from airplanes," he declared. I wonder what kind of spin the twits at Faux News are putting on this for their audience of the bloodthirsty!
On this Memorial Day weekend, it would be worthwhile for Americans - whose government is running this abattoir - to recognize the immorality of their support for such madness. Those who wave their flags, or emblazon their cars with "support the troops" messages, are as much to blame for this so-called "breakdown in morality" as anyone else. Out of a sense of moral decency, this weekend might be an appropriate occasion to remove such symbols from their cars, homes, and - better yet - their minds!
A Breakdown in Thinking
Posted by Butler Shaffer at 12:53 PM
News reports inform us that American military officials are now convinced that a unit of Marines killed some 24 unarmed Iraqis, including women and six children. Some of the victims had been shot "execution style." One government official stated that this atrocity showed "a total breakdown in morality."
What on earth do these officials think all war is, if not a "breakdown in morality?" If the systematic slaughter of tens or hundreds of thousands of human beings doesn't represent a "breakdown in morality," what does? Do we have to wait for some major offense, such as illicit sex in the oval office? I would go even further than this: "war is the mobilization of immorality." Would these apologists for such killings have been satisfied if the same deaths to the same innocents had been brought about by aerial bombs? I am reminded of a distinction one of my students tried making a few years ago in contrasting suicide bombers with militarily disciplined killing: "at least we have the decency to drop bombs from airplanes," he declared. I wonder what kind of spin the twits at Faux News are putting on this for their audience of the bloodthirsty!
On this Memorial Day weekend, it would be worthwhile for Americans - whose government is running this abattoir - to recognize the immorality of their support for such madness. Those who wave their flags, or emblazon their cars with "support the troops" messages, are as much to blame for this so-called "breakdown in morality" as anyone else. Out of a sense of moral decency, this weekend might be an appropriate occasion to remove such symbols from their cars, homes, and - better yet - their minds!
Question: did U.S. troops in WW2 shoot children while their mothers tried to shield them, screaming for mercy? Remember Maggot, the Telly Savalas rapist-character from "The Dirty Dozen?" Jim Brown machine-gunned him for messing with a German woman in a simple act of field justice. That sort of moral action seemed fairly unremarkable to people back then.
Fast-forward to today's GI: innured to violence by a lifetime of ultra-violent "Kill Bill" movies, ultra-violent FPS video games, he has become the thing an earlier generation was taught was most detestable: a nazi storm trooper, a self-appointed SS death's-head executioner. Bereft of any sense of the sacred, he shoots little girls without compunction. He is, quite literally, insane, a "Natural Born Killer."
These atavistic carrion-birds surely will come home to roost, and one thing seems undeniable: it's not going to be pretty when they do. I don't just mean the troops returning from Iraq: I mean the whole malevolent Culture of Death. Go for a drive in any U.S. city and witness the seething hatred Americans have for each other. "Your streets will be smeared with blood," as the prophecy has it. A society built on lies, where respect for human life is absent, where every media outlet mirrors the bloodlust, is a society doomed.
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last?"
Iraq has been a training ground.
Sane people come home scarred for life from such a place.
The real psychopaths graduate to high paying private security contractor jobs and are destined to become the Praetorian Guard for the New World Order.
On that last video game piece, I just posted a comment, referring to a serial killer toy set. And an article about it.
the article was written 17 years ago about a kid who was not yet near puberty.
Kind of Bart or Lisa's age back in the days of the original simpsons.
The kid who bought that toy would be in their mid to late 20s right now, possibly with a tour or two of Iraq under their belts.
It's not the "Kill Bills" or the video games that cause this bullshit, not even serial killer toys.
Its the lack of true culture and connection to anything that really fucks things up.
"Fast-forward to today's GI: innured to violence by a lifetime of ultra-violent "Kill Bill" movies, ultra-violent FPS video games, he has become the thing an earlier generation was taught was most detestable: a nazi storm trooper, a self-appointed SS death's-head executioner. Bereft of any sense of the sacred, he shoots little girls without compunction. He is, quite literally, insane, a "Natural Born Killer." "
Its not the movies... or the games.
Bereft of any sense of the sacred...
That is it.
After all, ALL life is sacred.
Or none. there is no middle ground.
(PS I am a carnivore, things die for me to live. The life they had is sacred too.)
To all of you who have never been in a war....there is no morality in war."
I heard a WW2 vet say this tonight.
Couldn't agree more.
It's one good reason why wars should be last resorts instead of the cool graphics embellished infotainment spectacles that they are.
It's also why the ultimate responsibility for this lies at Washington's doorstep. &, ultimately, at our doorsteps. Washington sold us a bill of goods & we were too damn lazy to uncover the bill of goods. Hell, I bet more Americans do more research to buy a f*cking clothes dryer than they did before they bought this war, hook line & sinker.
Of course, a lot of Americans have flip flopped over to the against column. I just hope they don't try to scapegoat these boys for acting badly in reeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaal goddamn bad situation that WE sent them into.
& I do mean WE.
I thought this was a bad idea from the start, but what did I do to stop it?
Wrote my representatives & garnered a collection of condescending form "You just don't understand the situation" letters in return, signed a couple of petitions,marched in a march.......woo-fucking-woo.
In other words, I didn't do shit.
But then, neither did anyone else.
You don't have to be drunk to cause a car accident.
When Roman soldiers asked John the baptist how should they prepare themselves for this Messiah in the book of Luke, John responded,"Do not terrify men with a view to extortion, neither accuse anyone falsely; and be content with your wages.
For an excellent exposure of Chinese Communism go to www.ninecommentaries.com
The following four paragraphs are taken from this website. For the Chinese Communists killing is also necessary for practical reasons. The Communist Party began as a group of thugs and scoundrels who killed to obtain power. Once this precedent was set, there was no going back. Constant terror was needed to intimidate people and force them to accept, out of fear, the absolute rule of the Chinese Communist Party.
In a normal society, people show care and love for one another, hold life in awe and veneration and give thanks to God. In the East, people say, "Do not impose on others what you would not want do to yourself." In the West, people say, "Love thy neighbor as thyself." Conversely, the CCP holds that "The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles." In order to keep alive the "struggles" within society, hatred must be generated. Not only does the CCP take lives, it encourages people to kill each other.
It strives to desensitize people towards others' suffering by surrounding them with constant killing. It wants them to become numb from frequent exposure to inhumane brutality, and develop the mentality that "the best you can hope for is to avoid being persecuted." All these lessons taught by brutal suppression enable the CCP to maintain it's rule.
In addition to the destruction of countless lives, the CCP also destroyed the soul of the Chinese people. A great many people have become conditioned to react to the CCP's threats by entirely surrendering their reason and their principles. In a sense, these people's souls have died - something more frightening than physical death.
Back in 1903, Yale Divinity School established a number of schools and hospitals throughout China that were collectively known as 'Yale in China.' One of 'Yale in China's' most important students was Mao Zedong. During World War II, 'Yale in China' was a primary instrument used by the U.S. Establishment and its Office of Strategic Services (OSS) to install the Maoists into power. 'Yale in China' was run by OSS operative Reuben Holden, the husband of Bush's cousin, and also a member of the Skull and Bones.
"Yale in China" was also closely associated with the New York - based Union Theological Seminary, which has been a center for U.S. subversion of Asia. "The Maoists made China into the world's largest opium producer."
According to Kathy Griggs, this revolutionary terrorist group is controlling the Marines and Army. They all operate together. They actually promoted communists in the OSS, which was started by William Donovan. So they promote and use communists, who actually want to get rid of the form of U.S. government as a stepping stone to world domination. So this group, now, in the Army and Marine Corp. has communists at the very top.
One example of this truth is the goings on at Abu Ghraib U.S. Military Prison, which is located twenty miles west of Baghdad. A large percent of prisoners there have not commited any criminal acts agaisnt the coalition. The military has a policy of "random sweeps" whenever the base is under attack. They gather all men in the area between the ages 17-45 for questioning to Abu Ghraib Prison. After finding out the men's innocence they are slated for release. But because of military bureaucracy this can be as long as one year.
General Kapinski states in the "Taguba Report" Section 24 (U) that as many as 60 percent of Abu Ghraib prisoners are not guilty of any crimes committed agaisnt the coalition. The release of these innocent prisoners was denied by General Majowski 2nd in command in Iraq.
On the internet type Iraq: Beyond Abu Ghraib: Detention and torture in Iraq. This is the Amnesty International Report.
Also the February 2004 International Red Cross Report Section 7 which states that 70 to 90 percent of all prisoners held at Abu Ghraib were innocent.
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic, and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.
- Theodore Roosevelt -
>Back in 1903, Yale Divinity School established a number of schools and hospitals throughout China that were collectively known as 'Yale in China.' One of 'Yale in China's' most important students was Mao Zedong. During World War II, 'Yale in China' was a primary instrument used by the U.S. Establishment and its Office of Strategic Services (OSS) to install the Maoists into power. 'Yale in China' was run by OSS operative Reuben Holden, the husband of Bush's cousin, and also a member of the Skull and Bones.
"Yale in China" was also closely associated with the New York - based Union Theological Seminary, which has been a center for U.S. subversion of Asia. "<
Perhaps the whole reason Mao did his thing was because he was against what he learnt from "Yale in China".
Perhaps he was trying to destroy the influence of a group he felt were trying to rule the world.
Just a thought.
Probably wrong, but maybe not.
One practical result of Mao was the cultural revolution.
This probably severed the Chinese zeitgeist from its cultural and spiritual base. Its easier to commit atrocities in the name of power in this way IMO, well easier to motivate others to do it for you.
Disconnection from the source.
Yet again.
"A pattern rarely admitted by the West's institutional media."
Rarely admitted that we follow that pattern too. Its always others elsewhere that do that evil stuff.
There seems to be a trend of this sort.
This guy(Macbeth, great name) and 911 show a similar pattern.
There is (potentially) an ugly truth, either US military violence against civilians, or US admin complicity or responsibility for violence against its own and foreign civilians (in the WTC, Pentagon and various aircraft).
Extreme sensationalist claims surface that may be true (No jews died in the WTC) others events that are confirmed, like the van full of Israelis, are shown to be true and suddenly the claim seems even more plausible. That claim is then exposed as crap, and particularly offensive crap at that, (especially if you are related to some of the dead Jewish paople from the WTC).
Other amazing,hard to credit claims follow, the planes were holograms, or weren't there or whatever.
And the money trail, or the stupidities, like the finding of a highjackers passport in the rubble within 12 hours of the event, or the reports of the Seattle Mayor being warned not to fly to the east coast on 911, or the Bin ladens charter flight out of the US during the "no fly" period; all that disappears under the weight of scorn flung at the claims that are wrong.
Here we will show you the truth, but only in a form you cannot possibly believe.
Very clever.
So instead of thousands of US soldiers snapping and killing the odd Iraqi civillian, or five. We have claims that many or all US soldiers are murdering Iraqis by the hundreds. If that was the case there would be fuck all people left in Iraq. Obviously crap, spoken by a nutter, anything he says or anything that comes from a similar place belongs in the same file "batshit crazy rubbish designed to discredit us".
Truth is soldiers do horrible things in war. things they would probably have never thought themselves capable of. Most western armies probably do try to moderate this, just for PR reasons and political ones. But I bet such concerns are far from the minds of military leaders who cannot be bothered to equip or supply their own troops properly.
If the army is disciplined and honourable it is designed to prevent such excesses, designed to produce fearsome perfect warriors who will kill you in a million different ways, but only if you are evil and fight them.
Pity those armies only exist in niave children's imaginations, or fantasy novels set in mythical worlds.
All this babbling here will remedy nothing.
Ask God's forgiveness.
Get out while you can.
Revelation 18:
18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Here we go again...
Remember: there is no conspiracy. Let's go over this article slowly, shall we?
First of all, every war has its share of atrocities and massacres, on both sides. To think otherwise is to be totally naive and uninformed. Wait, that is a good definition of the American public in general -- but that's another story.
A few examples of this. The Boer war: first case of concentration camps, run by the British to exterminate rebels fighting against the British Empire. WWI saw regular massacres of unarmed German soldiers who had surrendered to the allies. WWII saw the bombing of Dresden, a target with very little military importance, and home to thousands of refugees. Berlin was sacked and thousands of German women raped by the Red Army in 1945. Korea witnessed several civilian massacres. Vietnam had My Lai, and the Tiger Force.
So, today, there are massacres in Iraq? The cynic in me just replies: "And this is... news?". Repeat after me, people: if dumb-as-bricks Americans did not want their precious military to be sullied by civilian massacres, they should not have given President "W" Bush the right to invade. Except very few American citizens had the courage to stand and protest.
And, you mean, the army is now trying to hide the horrible, horrible fact that dozens, maybe hundreds of civilians were murdered in cold blood by US soldiers? And this is a conspiracy? Wake up, people! Ever since war exists (meaning: the dawn of time), civilians have been brutalized, raped, tortured and murdered, and the higher-ups have covered this by saying drivel and b*llshit such as: "We don't torture people in America." (actual Presidential quote).
Please, people, there is no conspiracy here: just a bunch of morons, realizing they have unleashed horror on innocents and trying to cover their asses. Why do you think only lowly soldiers and no generals have been convicted? Because generals have the power, that's why!
So, one soldier stood up and talked about some razed shithole in Iraq? Maybe he is going overboard and creating a fancy tale of horror? So what? That's not a cover-up, that's just some dumb -- and scarred for life -- white trash making shit up.
Of course,the US military is going to jump at the chance to sweep the real skeletons under the carpet, so to speak. Business as usual, and war is good business. Nothing to see here, people, move along.
This is the result of more than 60 years of military conditioning. In WWII, most of the soldiers refused to shoot at people, and shot either in the air or -- at least -- above the heads of enemy soldiers. In Iraq, well-conditioned army psychopaths are going to shoot at everything that moves. You don't like it? Too bad, you voted for the moron. Twice.
One last time: repugnant? Yes. Disgusting? Yes. Obvious? Yes. Conspiracy? No. It's just the normal m.o. of the biggest military machine ever created on Earth.
Yay, USA! Home of the psychos and Land of the militaro-industrial complex! All praise God, and pass the ammo, we are going to smoke ourselves some Iraqis! All in the name of God, and freedom, and democracy, and justice, and a foetus! (as Bill Hicks would say)
40 years from now, more horrors, more massacres are going to be unearthed... Probably just in time for the next senseless war. No conspiracy here, people, the dumbs leading the sheeps is more like it.
Some mapmakers draw their conclusions on time and space with civil holidays spread out neatly across the spectrum. There is no "now" in Remembrance Day or Groundhog Day or Memorial Day or any other ICON of DAYS.
Now is not the reason why we have the ICON of DAYS. Now is silent and the landscaape is mindscape is timescape is sanctified.
Sure you can protest Rembembrance Day. Just don't wear a poppy. Now that's making a statement.
DA: speaking of "razed shitholes in Iraq" is employing the language of dehumanization, yes? Is a razed shithole in Iraq terribly different from a razed shithole in, say, Waco, Texas? Please don't forget that the Iraqis never did anything to us'ns. We're the bully in their yard, and might makes right in the doublespeak of the fascisti. "Profits, not people," dude.
In your little history lesson (why not go back to the Romans who slaughtered everyone in Carthage, or, for that matter, the Israelites in the OT, commanded by Yawheh to slaughter man, women, and child?), you mention the bombing of Dresden. I'll toss in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but those pilot-murderers were at one remove from the slaughter they were, uh, enabling: they didn't have to look at the mother trying to shield her kids before pulling the trigger. Obviously, the pilots didn't think too much about what was happening on the ground, or they would lose their minds (their souls had already been burned away, whether they knew it or not). I'm sure there were GIs shooting innocents in WW2, but that kind of atrocity is not emblamatic of the war, in the way that napalm drops and tiger teams are emblamatic of Vietnam, and Fallujah and Abu Graib and Hadifa will be emblamatic of Iraq.
Denying the effects of violent culture is denying the effects of operant conditioning. Yes, at the root of our monstrous age is the loss of any sense of the sacred, or, more specifically, the acute sense that humans are created in the image of God and that God is very much real and keeping notes, but surely one step towards rediscovering human dignity is acknowledging that culture matters. No one "turns off the tv" before first realizing that tv is unhealthy (Jerry Mander's book is brilliant in this regard), just as no one will "avert their eyes from the Imperium" without realizing that Empire-worship is nothing but Moloch-worship.
Moloch? Indeed. As Mother Teresa put it, "If we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell people not to kill one another? Any country that accepts abortion, is not teaching its people to love, but to use any violence to get what it wants."
Ouch! Religiosity! But most certainly the U.S. is "using any violence to get what it wants," and has been for a long time. Hey, the undead like Cal Thomas say, "it's the cost of freedom." Freedom to do what--obey? I like Edward Abbey's quote (and we miss you, Ed): "freedom begins between your ears."
'nuff said.
Anonymous said...
Sorry Jeff I have posted to you before about this and I really do not care one iota.There are too many people in the world,resources are limited under current economic models and this has always gone on.It's all about real estate and this is just foreplay ,the fucking starts with China, deal with it.As war has become more technologically advanced more civilians have died,look at Goya for gods sake.It's not right, it's not wrong,it just is.... Grow up and quit bitchin....Forward over the fallen and quit moaning over the downsides of Globalisation.Try reading Philip Caputos A Rumour of War.
2:52 PM
Jackass.
Show us your credentials and citations, other than gun ownership and watching WWII glory documentaries, that lead you to conclude that resources and current social state of the world are only resolved through warfare.
Your conclusion is just plain wrong.
Stan Goff on them "rogue apples":
"I’ll tell you what the rogue aspect of this was. Someone got the pictures. Just like Abu Ghraib. Anyone who thinks this was a single instance of the intentional killing of civilians, I have beachfront property to sell you in Odessa, Texas."
***
Oh, and today we have US military convoys running down crowds in Kabul. "Failed brakes," they say. And then shooting at them in concert with their frightened Afghan stooge "army." Watch Afghanistan break apart next.
Bad orchard we have here.
"Forward over the fallen."
You know--like cockroaches.
Can we stop with the God shit, already? Please?
What kind of God sits idly by while its progeny suffers miserably and needlessly? Step back and think how cruel this son of a bitch must be, if you believe in such a thing.
God, the concept, may play a part in this, but only insofar as it is used to justify the killing.
But please don't insult our intelligence by claiming all of this could be mitigated if we just worshipped some God more frequently and properly.
A couple of years prior, one of the neighbor's kids was Trick or Treat'n dressed as Bible Man.....yeah, that's right, you heard it...Bible Man.
Bible Man, Bible Man
Spin Me A Verse
As Fast As You Can
His Reward
No Reward
Saving Souls
Is His Only Reward
Oh Yeah
Here Comes The Bible Man, Now
Here Comes The Bible Man
"They hate us because of our freedoms."
Good one.
Richard, you are so full of shit.
Heaven is filled with children...and the people who were not afraid to protect them at any cost.
“Out damned spot! Out I say!”
http://yooha.meepzorp.com/out-spot/index_files/out-spot.jpg
Anonymous 3:10pm said
Heaven is filled with children...and the people who were not afraid to protect them at any cost.
So, by definition, your precious God is not there with them in Heaven, since he failed to protect them at all costs, or any cost, for that matter. Is cost even relevant to this God of yours? Either way, your God is disqualified by your qualifications for entrance into heaven.
I have a couple of questions.
Is Harry Truman in heaven?
Was Pat Benatar incorrect when she said "Hell Is For Children?"
"As Mother Teresa put it, 'If we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell people not to kill one another? Any country that accepts abortion, is not teaching its people to love, but to use any violence to get what it wants.'"
HEAR, HEAR. Start making the connections, people, between http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/pictures_2.html this and http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41186000/jpg/_41186472_kar-child-ap416.jpg this : that's what 'intuition' is all about...
Dude. Pat Benatar? Hell is paved with the skulls of crapazoid musicians like her.
Question for you. Was the OT formulation 'what is hateful to you do not do to others' a fairly rad concept for humans in 1000 BC? Or do you think it normal for that time and place? And why did the Israelites embrace and defend their silly silly little Torah for lo those many centuries, beset as they were on all sides by truly blood-thirsty pagans? How did they do it? Was it the yoghurt? Was it dumb luck? Why defend as a paramount rule what amounts to rather remarkable Humanism? Explain the evolutionary biology behind that one, please, and, since you've set the terms of the debate, leave God out of it.
Good luck. As for me, I think if people and their governors were enlightened enough to follow that one tenet of Judaism (or the Christian or Buddhist formulation), we'd all be a lot better off.
oh stop with blaming God for the shithole humanity has made of this world--all of you who'd like to bash God or demons or angels or aliens need to look into the mirror to find out why the ground you walk on is cursed. "God" never did shit to you that you know of, but you're quick to blame him for your fucked up life. real brave of you, shrub.
sorry 'bout that.. there IS a connection between http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/pictures_2.html and http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41186000/jpg/_41186472_kar-child-ap416.jpg
@#^%&*$&#! Last try:
There IS a connection between this and this
Moloch, indeed...
It's Memorial Day! Wall-to-wall war movies!
I just saw again that quaint little scene in 'Bridge Over the River Kwai' where Alec Guinness tries to read the Geneva Convention to the fanatic Japanese commander. The Japanese throws the book down and slaps Alec Guinness in the face.
Imagine a prisoner at Abu Graib or Gitmo trying to read the G.C. to his American interrogator.
Actually, on second thought, don't try to imagine that.
Anonymous Cocksucker said at 2:52:
Sorry Jeff I have posted to you before about this and I really do not care one iota.
Then perhaps it's fortunate that more people aren't as inhuman as you.
There are too many people in the world,resources are limited under current economic models and this has always gone on.
Then put your money where your mouth is and kill some of your neighbors. They're taking your stuff.
.It's all about real estate and this is just foreplay ,the fucking starts with China, deal with it.
"Deal with it," apparently means "cheerleadng from the bleachers."
As war has become more technologically advanced more civilians have died,look at Goya for gods sake.It's not right, it's not wrong,it just is....
If right and wrong actually exist, then it's wrong.
At least a soldier on a battlefield has the excuse that he was following orders, or that in a free-fire zone he couldn't tell the guys in the black hats from the guys in the white hat, because accidents fucking happen. You don't. You see it happening, and tacitly approve.
You're not merely wrong, not merely insane, you're actively fucking evil.
Grow up and quit bitchin....Forward over the fallen and quit moaning over the downsides of Globalisation.
If someone close to you dies in one silly-ass war for the juice to run your SUV, or you find yourself sitting in a homeless shelter, or standing on a streetcorner and panhandling for change from strangers who couldn't give two shits for you, because the fat slobs who run your company decided to outsource your job to people who will work twice as long and hard as you do for a tenth the pay, your credit rating is in negative numbers and your new address is "No Fixed Address," then I pray that I'm there when someone repeats those exact same words to you.
Try reading Philip Caputos A Rumour of War.
I'm sworn to oppose you and people like you with every fiber of my being. I will build my home out of your bones, your blood will be my mortar, and I will build a pillar made of your skulls on my yard.
jon said...
oh stop with blaming God for the shithole humanity has made of this world--all of you who'd like to bash God or demons or angels or aliens need to look into the mirror to find out why the ground you walk on is cursed. "God" never did shit to you that you know of, but you're quick to blame him for your fucked up life. real brave of you, shrub.
Thanks for shaking me to my senses. Of course, you're right.
Allahu Akbar!!!!
For the record, how can I blame something if I don't acknowledge its existence. I believe there is something more than me, or us, but what that something constitutes is pure conjecture.
The concept of God made in man's image is a conspiracy, plain and simple. A time-honored strategy to control the masses. David Koresh may very well be the next Christ figure several hundred years from now, and if we could be there then, we would tell the orthodoxy created around his legend that they are insane fools......and we would promptly be burned at the stake.
Now, as for the psalms, and other enlightening anecdotes, I dig them, baby, wholeheartedly, so long as everybody's embraced it completely. If they haven't, and only some have, then the some are lambs to the slaughter.
Hit Me With Your Best Shot.
Fire Away.
I'm waiting for an answer on Truman. Is he in heaven?
We all knew that we were letting loose the dogs of war.
It's going to be hard, but not impossible, for society to put the dogs of war back in their cages.
You're both right.
No, EricS, shrubmegiddo is simply full of shit.
"How can I blame something if I don't acknowledge it?" How wise.
Que profundo.
Well, d'uh, that's just called DENIAL, moron. Like what the Foxsies and oil co. shills do re Global Warming.
What a complete dumshit.
The problem with the anti-war types, who get sooooo indignant about "American atrocities", is that they conveniently sit in their easy-chairs, sipping coffee while running off at the mouth about other who actually take action. hilarious, imho.....if these loud-mouths really cared about these "innocents" they'd quit their jobs and volunteer for Red Cross. No?? or, is it expecting too much for bleeding hearts to give up their hi-speed internet and microwave dinners to actually, physically help stop this paradigm of violence?? i think so.
At 7:59 AM, Anonymous Dickhead wrote:
The problem with the anti-war types, who get sooooo indignant about "American atrocities", is that they conveniently sit in their easy-chairs, sipping coffee while running off at the mouth about other who actually take action. hilarious, imho.....
Hilarious. So what do you do, or are you too busy sitting in your easy chair and sipping coffee while running your gob about the oh-so-hilarious "anti-war types?"
If these loud-mouths really cared about these "innocents" they'd quit their jobs and volunteer for Red Cross.
I really like how we put innocents in quotation marks there. Are we one of those nice people who doesn't believe that such things are "innocents" and "noncombatants" actually exist?
Why I think so.
How incredibly cute. I just want to eat you the fuck up.
current economic models
I love it! Presumably you're referring to the greedy-old-white-man model? But you use the plural form, which confuses me.
downsides of Globalisation
Well, sure, there are upsides, such as the friendly service and great prices of Wal-Mart.
Oh, and Pepsi-- I hear Pepsi is very popular in Iraq.
Support our troops, bring them home. . . but not the "bad apples," like Colin Powell.
The result of a few 'bad apples' is that the entire barrel is spoiled, isn't it?
ROFL!!! Now I see what's wrong with canada. Don't you think y'all should worry about fixin your own screwed up country first?! You think the US is a mess, have you looked out your own back door yet? My granny always said, "If you ain't yet fixed yer own problems, don't go meddlin in nobody elses business."
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