Interview with Kathleen Sullivan (Part Three)
Many thanks to Kathleen for this, and for parts one and two. A fourth part will follow.
Observing public figures and government officials, do you ever suspect that some are themselves alters? If so, what are the indicators?
I believe that our current President has a strong dissociative disorder. I can’t go into too many details about why I believe this, other than to state that I have received quite a bit of information, for over four years, from journalists and investigators who have identified a number of behaviors that are also common among many dissociated mind-control victims. My favorite example has been his response (shown in Fahrenheit 911) after he was told about the terrorist attack in New York. His seven-minute trance state was quite startling. Dissociating, or going into a strong trance-state, is typical among trauma survivors who tend to mentally “check out” when they encounter a situation that is overwhelming, or mentally or emotionally intolerable. Seven minutes is a VERY long time for a Commander in Chief trance out in front of a group of children, ON CAMERA, while his advisors stand in the wings, waiting for his response.
I have tried to figure out whether other prominent politicians have dissociative tendencies, but frankly, I find it very difficult to do. Although, I have heard from journalists and investigators who state they have “figured out” some other politicians, I have not received information to convince me that their theories are valid. On the other hand, I did know several politicians who, away from the public eye, would sometimes regress into child alter-states. This is different than an individual whose primary, or presenting, persona is an altered state of consciousness. The individuals I’m referring to, appeared to be normally in control of themselves and cognizant of what was occurring around them. In other words, their host or primary personas were usually “out” and in charge – especially in public. But sometimes, when they were in private and let their guard down, they appeared to “switch” into a younger altered state of consciousness. At such times, their vocabulary would become simpler and they were more likely to use concrete instead of abstract thinking. Their voices and faces also would also become noticeably younger. I never liked it when they switched like that, because, their child alter-states were brutal and sadistic, and were more likely to lose control of themselves and do especially awful things to me and other victims. They were also more likely, at those times, to forget who I was, and treat me as if I was a female from their past who they hated. Those were especially difficult and dangerous experiences.
You mention discovering occultists operating under the cover of Christian fundamentalism. In your experience, is that widespread?
I was, in the past, a Christian fundamentalist. That was part of how I was kept under control. Numerous scriptures and traditional teachings were used to direct my mind and keep me compliant. (This included being taught that I could not divorce my first husband, who was an active handler, unless I was able to prove that he committed adultery. In several fundamentalist churches, I was also reminded that as his wife, I was expected to submit unto him as I would unto the Lord, even if he were to beat me to death in the process.) I believe that reasonably intelligent criminals would find it easier to be a part of a fundamentalist church, because such a church’s rules and traditional mores are especially easy to remember.
I’ve known many criminal occultists, as well as career pedophiles, who would win the trust of a church’s leaders, become leaders themselves, and then gain access to the keys to the church, other members’ children, or both. A criminally minded sociopath who has spent all of his or her life mimicking others - to be believed or accepted - will especially be adept at faking being a genuine, Bible-believing, Jesus-worshipping Christian. Several pastors in Georgia, who were warned by others that local criminal occultists were infiltrating their churches, asked me if I believed that the church leaders could use a litmus test by asking the suspects to say that Jesus is Lord. They believed this could work, because the Bible states that demons cannot say it. They were quite unhappy when I reminded them that these are individuals who choose to do evil out of their free will. Such devious individuals can smile with joy and declare that “Jesus is Lord” all day and still do the worst to other human beings.
The only litmus test that has worked for me, so far, is that such individuals may say and do all the “right” things, and may even be unusually charismatic and compelling, but I am not able to feel any “gut to gut” connection with them. This occurs because people who fake being who they are, are not – at least at that moment – able to be genuine, and to emotionally connect with others. By the way, I need to clarify that although I choose to be a non-fundamentalist Christian, I am not opposed to any person’s right to choose another religion. What I am opposed to, is any person who uses his or her religion – Christian or Satanism or whatever – to restrict the rights of, or to do harm to, other human beings.
Is such infiltration widespread? I don’t know that this is what we should be most concerned about. What we do need to remember is that people who go to church are still fully human. Saved or not, redeemed or not, committed to their God or not, they can still do wonderful things and awful things. Every day gives us new choices. As long as we wear mental blinders and believe we are “safer” while attending a church, we are not going to be sufficiently self-protective. And we are also going to put our children at greater risk of being harmed. Dr. Anna Salter explained this danger in her marvelous book, Predators. I believe it should be required reading for every religious leader and for every person who is – in any way - responsible for the welfare of children.
Did you ever observe "shape-shifting" or other paranormal phenomena at occult rites?
I only remember seeing two weird things happen at occult rituals. My father, who was a high priest of a small cult in Pennsylvania, would sometimes tell me that he was "Lucifer." When he went into what seemed to be an altered state by that name, his eyes would turn red. That really freaked me out. About seven years ago, a former CIA officer explained to me that this was actually a family-generational trick, that may have a genetic component. He said that people like my father, who has a Druid family background, learned how to increase the amount of blood in his eyes. I don’t know if that officer was telling me the truth or not, but it did help me realize that my father was not possessed by Lucifer back then.
One other phenomenon that I experienced, was when I was made to lay on my back on a stone altar, again as a child. My father sprinkled a circle of powder around the altar, then set it on fire. A large male "creature" walked through the fire, totally naked, and dad told me it was called "Incubus." After he did his worst to me, he walked away. Now, I suspect that the "Incubus" was probably just a big man with a shaved head and shaved, dyed skin. For all I know, they might have filmed the whole thing and sold it as child porn.
Can you tell us a bit about UFOs and screen memories?
I can only share what I have personally experienced. What I share may or may not "fit" with what other survivors are able to recollect. One of the methods that were used extensively to trick my mind, even when I was an adult, was Eriksonian hypnosis. It worked well because I was almost always in a trance state anyway. It was very easy for a person, skilled in hypnotism, to say certain words or phrases to me that influenced me to fully believe that - for example - a helicopter that was about to land in front of us was a UFO, and its pilots were aliens from Uranus. However, as I have remembered such experiences, I have remembered that even though I BELIEVED the vehicle was a UFO, I actually saw a military copter.
There was one odd occasion in which I was taken to a below-ground installation with large tunnels. I was introduced, by adults dressed in white suits, to what I was told were "alien" children. Although I believed they were aliens at that time, later, a handler told me that the children were actually the result of decades of genetic experimentation. The handler also explained that the children are raised to BELIEVE that they are aliens, and are even taught a very different language. One of those children did look remarkably like some of the drawings I’ve seen in publications, of traditional "aliens."
On another occasion, I was escorted by the individual I call "Lucian" into a large, warehouse-sized room that was set up to look like the inside of a big UFO. We entered the room through a shower-sized entrance that was walled on both ends by shimmery, soft strands of a silver metallic substance. A number of tall adults in the fake UFO wore what were clearly "alien" costumes. Lucian bragged to me, as he was wont to do, that others like me were brought to that specific facility to be given UFO/Alien abduction programming. Because I was not hypnotized to believe that it was the inside of a UFO, and because Lucian seemed to need to brag to somebody about how clever they were, I never forgot that it was a fake set-up. I now believe that these kinds of fake memories were created in the minds of controlled slaves to discredit them, should they ever remember the "aliens" and talk about them. I believe that the fake memories were also installed to block out the survivors’ memories of real perpetrators and real events.