Thursday, July 28, 2005

Plan 9 from Saudi Arabia


"My friend, you have seen this incident, based on sworn testimony. Can you prove that it didn't happen?" - Criswell

No time today for a proper update, but I'm interested in what you make of this article yesterday from Greg Szymanski.

The story is a strange one. Two reputed, former NASA contractors named Rene Welch and Roger Logsdon - they say NASA stole their work; NASA denies any association - claim their work brought them into the orbit of Saudi Royals and the bin Laden family. In 1987, says Logsdon, "two of the bin Laden brothers came some 90 miles from Phoenix, Arizona, and stopped at our doorstep [in Sedona] unannounced. Their bodyguards set up a surveillance parameter around our property and others came into our house, taped up the windows and set up a film projector. The people in this motorcade seemed very scared, and presented this as a matter of life and death":

These men told us to be very cautious and to assume that we were under surveillance by our government. For several hours they showed us films of meetings of key Arabs and U.S. government officials discussing the oil issues. The bottom line was that if the Arabs did not do it their way, the U.S. would simply take their oil by force. They also explained that they have been manipulated into setting up bank accounts where oil profits were siphoned off and were no longer under their control.

They then explained why the World Trade Centers were the ideal target for this purpose. The two bin Ladens showed us this film because they made it very clear how they did not want to be involved with any U.S. plot to manipulate the Arab governments or start a war.


The meeting, writes Szymanski, is corroborated by a third witness, Naomi Niles, who was present when the bin Laden motorcade pulled up, but was not herself a part of the NASA project.

Perhaps most incredibly, Welch claims that while she was employed in NASA's Application Technical Center in Phoenix, researching brain development and mind control, she obtained a secret computer code which uncovered a government-funded study titled “Global Cleanse 2000,” outlining "strategies for global war and population reduction."

Welch says that for 20 years she has had a tacit understanding with FBI and CIA operatives to "shut up and lay low," but she's now broken the deal because, reasonably enough, "what’s the difference if they’re planning global war and mass population reduction"?

What to make of all this?

There's something virtually Fortean about this tale. The Saudi motorcade arriving unannounced, the bin Ladens sharing their Deepest Secrets with the unsuspecting - I want to say humans, because this reads like a classic close encounter. Roger Logsdon may as well have been told, like contactee Herbert Schirmer, "Someday, Watchman, you will see the universe!" (Bin Ladens, like trickster entities, say the darndest things.) The NASA association, which has provided cover for some of the highest crimes and cover-ups of the national security state, and the haunted backdrop of the American Southwest, is almost too perfect.

And "Global Cleanse 2000"? As was posted yesterday on the RI discussion board, it "sounds fake; a project like that would likely be called something more innocuous." Many of us suspect, with good reason, something like Global Cleanse 2000 is in effect. But to be told, You were right, here it is: and guess what it's called? makes me suspect disinformation in mimicry of truth.

I haven't had time to dig into this as I should, and I'm not dismissing it out of hand. It is incredible, but the incredible may also be true. I do think it deserves serious digging, to either discard it or raise it to the next level. But my first reaction is one of wariness. If something falls into our laps that seems to answer too much - a magic key that unlocks too many deep mysteries, perhaps found filed under "Magic Key 2000" - it may raise even more questions than it purports to answer. We ought to be on our guard, and try the key in a few locks before we claim to know its magic. (Or when something gets slipped under our door, as when the MJ-12 documents were slipped under Producer Jaime Shandera's in 1984.) This, on first whiff, smells too much like the disinformation campaign of the "Dulce Papers" that drove UFO researcher Paul Bennewitz out of his right mind, and still seperates too many self-described UFOlogists from their better selves.

This suggests to me that 9/11 researchers and students of Deep Politics, regardless of what they make of the field of UFOlogy, would be well-served by making a study of the many layers of elegant disinformation that have been applied to the subject over the decades by both governments and private interests. Though the subject is different, the pattern of deception is much the same, and recognizing disinformation regardless of its shapeshifting aspect does wonders for one's bullshit detector.

Comparing notes, even with the class freaks, is never a bad idea, whatever the cool kids may think.

50 Comments:

Blogger plectic said...

All this information comes from one internet source. A bit like the "previously unknown terrorist organization". Pinch of salt advised.

11:37 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We're in such a tricky situation with 9/11 and potential Whistle Blowers. We can't just dismiss them outright, and neither can we embrace them blindly. And no matter what we do, other potential Whistle Blowers are probably watching how the 9/11 Truth Movement, and the public at large, treats them. That's why I like the approach you're advocating which sounds to me like "proceed with caution". I'm not sure we have many other decent choices.

What I also find somewhat unusual with what seems like a pretty steady stream of 9/11 Whistle Blowers lately (especially coming exclusively from Greg Szymanski), is that there doesn't seem to be much follow up. We get these insider accounts, and there's all this hoopla for a couple days, and then we never seem to hear from these people again but their stories inevitably because part of the 9/11 Truth "official" lore. It's just not what I would expect a Whistle Blower to do because it's not like they're anonymous. These people have given their names and made themselves publicly available and yet aren't doing the full tinfoily interview circuit.

Being a tin-foil n00b without much experience with this stuff, it all just strikes me as a bit odd.

11:42 a.m.  
Blogger Jeff Wells said...

"It's just not what I would expect a Whistle Blower to do because it's not like they're anonymous"

Exactly. There are several orders of credibility seperating these people from, say, Sibel Edmonds. And it's not because their claims are so extraordinary. It's begins with the seeming half-heartedness of their going "public."

First thing independent researchers should do is check their bona fides. Sometimes, it seems, people who make such claims barely exist in the real world. They ought to leave genuine footprints.

12:01 p.m.  
Blogger plectic said...

woah you´ve gone all metaphorical jeff. Are you teasing with this post ?

12:13 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i especially liked the 'global elite scientists club'. cute. but also a reminder how important language is as an indicator of motive.

1:16 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is not a new report. I read about this months ago, but can't for the life of me remember where or when. Don't have access to any of my materials, either. Wonder why this is making the rounds again?

1:39 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's an interview from BlackOpRadio of Szymanski discussing the Rodriguez case for those interested. While he's telling Rodruiguez's story he also mentions other people's names, so there appears to be a fair amount of info potentially available to corroborate this story, including Rodriguez's heroic flight up to the 39th floor to unlock a door that was preventing a bunch of people from escaping. Those people would remember a man doing that. So, I'd say that story has potential, but unverified potential at this point.

1:41 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

zabasearch.com lists a Naomi Niles with phone number in Sedona, but no Ronald Logsdon in or near Philadelphia. There is a Ronald Logsdon listed in Hyndman PA. It's not clear from the article where Rene Welch lives now; a person by that name is listed in Tucson.

1:43 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Returning again the Szymanski's earlier report on William Rodriguez. It appears that Rodriguez, at least, is planning and doing some speaking tours. And here's another story of explosions in the basement from Chief Engineer Magazine, so we do have that to corroborate the story with.

But here's an unexpected twist in the Rodriguez story: It's a NY Daily News article about Rodriguez from last year where he claims to have seen one of the hijackers at the WTC North tower a few months before the attacks:
"WASHINGTON - A hero janitor who helped victims escape from the World Trade Center's north tower before it collapsed told the 9/11 panel that he came across one of the hijackers in the building a few months before the attack.

William Rodriguez, 43, of Jersey City met with the commission for the first time last week.

A 20-year Trade Center employee who swept stairwells, he swears he saw United Airlines Flight 175 hijacker Mohand Alshehri in June 2001 and told an FBI agent in the family center at Ground Zero about it a month after the attacks. He never heard back from the bureau..."

So, we have more info but I'm still left scratching my head. This story seems like it has SO MUCH potential, with literally dozens of witnesses that could testify to this guy's actions. And yet there doesn't seem to be a huge quest to find these other people. This story is still relatively new (at least awareness of it), so hopefully there will be more followup. I know I got my fingers crossed.

2:08 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry for totally threadjacking here, but getting once again back to the William Rodriguez story, I just came across this page here that has a bunch more mainstream news coverage of Mr. Rodgriguez that confirms he's very much a real person (maybe this was clear to everyone else, but I didn't know what to think of the story when I first heard about it).

Here's one from the CSMonitor:
"WASHINGTON - William Rodriguez was the last man to run out of the World Trade Center. Had he made it to work on time, he and the master key to the stairwells would have been near the top of the complex when the second plane hit.

Instead, he raced up the stairwells he had maintained for 20 years to unlock doors and help people escape. "I was protected for another purpose," he says. Credited with saving many lives, he received a National Hero Award from the Senate of Puerto Rico and organized the Hispanic Victims Group.

Like many others who lost family or were personally involved in Sept. 11, Mr. Rodriguez is convinced that much of what happened that day is still behind locked doors, and the only way to open them is to keep hurling questions at officials until they get answers. For such activists, the appearance of top Clinton and Bush administration officials before the 9/11 commission this week was a key moment, long awaited."

Here he is being interviewed on the News Hour. And here's another account of his experience.

This story deserves to be WAY bigger than it currently is within the 9/11 Truth Movement, IMHO. Documented, acknowleged heroism like that (by the last survivor to escape, no less!) is going to have a much better chance of spreading around the web, so let's take those articles (especially that CSMonitor one), and spread it all over the web!

Every little bit counts in this effort and this story just might be a Big bit. Woohoo! Hooray for Rodriguez! :-D

3:16 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Arthur Gilroy wrote:

"Please.

This is bullshit.

Can't you smell it?

AG

2:45 PM "

Yet, when you click on his name to go to his blog and maybe read enough from his website to get a sense of what he's about, there is no blog.

So who's the real bull shitter? I say it's Arthur.

Anyway, Global Cleansing is in effect, now as we speak. If you don't think this is going on, go visit Africa. Take a tour through Ethiopia, Sudan. All this political talk about sending money to save Africa is just talk. It will never happen. The money Bush promised to send for AIDS treatments was an empty promise.

BushCo: Taking over the world, one continent at a time.

4:06 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I asked a trusted, learned friend for his opinion of the article. Here is his response:

"Old news.

"Highly reliable.

"Global Cleanse 2000 had other names, too. You might want to probe that".

4:29 p.m.  
Blogger plectic said...

Other names ? Spill the beans then. Just noticed
this
on my desktop. doh. (5 days old). Noise not included

5:05 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to paraphrase RI: "I want to back away slowly and avoid eye contact."

At least Vreeland had some verifiable facts to sprinkle about at the onset of his strange journey. Without them, he wouldn't have been able to pull Ruppert and other well-meaning researchers into the kill zone. This story is more akin to Bob Lazar's testimony of his time at Groom Lake; which, lo-and-behold, is exactly like the CTers describe.

Did the US gov't stage-manage 911? Is there a 'Eugenics War' in the works? Maybe. But when we allow ourselves to be drug around by the nose by any 'whistleblower' willing to corroborate our hypothesized version of events, we're no different than the coincedence theorists.

People will follow up on this, and it will become a story, just probably not one we'll be happy to read.

5:06 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Asta said:

"All this political talk about sending money to save Africa is just talk. It will never happen. The money Bush promised to send for AIDS treatments was an empty promise."

It really bothered me that the Bob and Bono team sucked up to Bush in hopes that he'd shell out some cash for their cause. They are either blind, stupid, or suspect.

I wonder Bob n' Bono feel now that Bush's CIA has publicly claimed power over Irish citizens. Now that's a cause needing a benefit concert!

In case you missed it, check out Mark Fiore's cartoon, "Busho" --

http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/fiore/2005/07/rockstar.html

Cheers,
Morgan

5:26 p.m.  
Blogger plectic said...

No, but seriously, vreelands 2 scraps of paper outweigh this guys first hand experience as a material witness. These are historical amd legal documents, regardless of their validity. Nevertheless, the references in the pdf I linked too in my previous comment are are impeccable and virtually all official sources.

I especially like the anthrax bits..

"23. Curiously, and little reported by the media, the first of the half-dozen fatalities in the October 2001 anthrax attacks was a tabloid newspaper photo editor from Florida, Robert Stevens. While most Americans probably believe to this day that these anthrax attacks were the deeds of radical Islamists – notwithstanding that all evidence points to domestic sources – whom had Mr. Stevens offended? The answer is that he had offended the Bush family, by selecting for publication in the supermarket tabloid that employed him an embarrassing photograph of the President’s daughter, Jenna Bush, appearing tipsy and holding a cigarette, while staggering across a dance floor with a female friend in a nightclub"

it later continues...
"25. In connection with the anthrax attempt on Senator Daschle’s life, the New York Times reported:
The dry powder used in the anthrax attacks is virtually indistinguishable in critical technical respects from that produced by the United States military before it shut down its biowarfare program, according to federal scientists and military contractor documents. The similarity to the levels achieved by the United States military lends support to the idea that someone with ties to the old program may be behind the attacks that have killed five people. Its high concentration is surprising, weapon experts said, and far beyond what military analysts once judged as the likely abilities of terrorists. The anthrax sent to the Senate contained as many as one trillion spores per gram. If a lethal dose is estimated conservatively at 10,000 microscopic spores, then a gram in theory could cause about 100 million deaths. The letter sent to Tom Daschle, the Senate Democratic leader, is said to have held two grams of anthrax. (Emphasis added)."


pure fucking science. show me the noise?

5:42 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jeff, your Well(s) being poisoned.

How do I know? Every time a real whistleblower is revealed or comes out into the light, some new verifiable information comes out that changes the 911 story.

In this case there is nothing new. Yes we suspect 911 was an inside job, so what. "PLAN 9" doesn't go anywhere, doesn't prove anything, doesn't give a new perspective. It isn't any kind of lead, except the kind that wastes time, energy and other resources of the serious investigator.We CAN just dismiss this outright, watch me...its easy!

I'd call it a successful operation already wouldn't you?

Who should we congratulate?

5:57 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from the article
www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/article/1518131/30199.htm

...
Concerning the 200 page diaries documenting her FBI troubles and knowledge of 9/11, copies of the documents have previously been sent to several members of the former Clinton White House, including Hillary Clinton, as well as to Taos, NM. former district attorney John Paternoster, who Welch approached in 1995 about government death threats...

is this the same John Paternoster we know from cattle mutilations?

http://www.ovnis.atfreeweb.com/6_cattle_mutilations.htm
http://www.rense.com/ufo5/catmut.htm

google for Paternoster cattle mutilations

hmm, it's a small world...

6:41 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

plectic, I think you're addressing me(?) I was responding to the Logsdon/Welch story, not Rodriguez, which seems to be on the up'n'up. Thanks for the pdf, by the way.

And RI, on a completely unrelated topic, have you or anyone you know had any experience with posting to your discussion board through a Tor (onion router) network? I have a global account with ezBoard, but get 'Invalid Domain' errors when posting.

Great blog, BTW

6:52 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think a lot of commenters are missing Jeff's point, as I see it.

I think he's essentially saying "yes this smells like bunk--but perhaps it's not entirely. Can we exercise our collective muscles and prove it?"

My own initial impression was that this "smells" like Aussie Bloke and the Invisible Meteor. I think that's because what led me to dismiss Aussie Bloke was that I didn't believe the character. I didn't believe that someone who had carried this kind of knowledge around for (I think it was) 20 years would speak and behave the way he did. As the saying goes, "you buy the premise, you buy the bit".

And I don't think I buy this premise....

For instance, just off the top of my head I have to question why these Bin Laden brother picked Welch to spill their guts to. She doesn't give any rational, except to say that they met together due to some vaguely named "light and sound" machine. (What kind of "ground breaking work", for which they received praise, has no reasonable name?) If I put myself in their place I can imagine that I would have gone to someone in a more diplomatic/political sphere or someone in a foreign media. What do they possibly have to gain by such an elaborate bit of theatre with someone "involved in brain development and mind control projects" with NASA?

So that is a question I would demand a satisfactory answer to....

Also, evidently the "Global Elite Scientist’s Club" (which again, chose to head it a--at that time--"licensed hypnotism -therapist") has vanished without a trace. I would think there would be some number of references on the internet, if only in online resumes and such (these are "elite scientists" after all)...and I have to imagine the former head of the organization gave the correct title for the organization.

Those are the kind of details that make the story smell funny to me. Unless valid answers came forth, I'm inclined to wait for the proof....

I'm sure there are other things, but I got bus to catch.

Thanks, tho', Jeff. I always need the exercise.

6:55 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sometimes I wonder if these sorts of stories are better considered as messages than as hard facts.

Suppose you wanted to introduce a certain idea into the public consciousness but didn't want to expose yourself or your sources. The best way to do it might be to concoct a tall tale -- one containing the germ of the idea that you want to get out, mixed in with enough disinformation to muddy the trail plus enough colorful trappings to guarantee the story further circulation.

I've run into things like that in the past -- piles of steaming bullshit that appeared to have one true statement buried very deep in the center. I'm not saying that's what's happening here, but it's a possibility that should be considered.

7:07 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

its called shaking the tree my friends

don't fall out unless you have a parachute

9:50 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

well, I just think it's a matter of business. One for instance: Szymanski on his site, offers his services as a "journalist" to publicize any 'important' story you might be having trouble 'getting out there', you pay his fee and expenses. Then, once he and others have helped you get your little piece of truth 'out there' enough, you bring out the books, the dvds, you get interviews, you become an expert on all sorts of things, and the log-rolling goes into full steam. This is a 'work at home' business that many people make a small but steady income with. Any actual truth contained in these stories are mostly accidental or due to the need to concoct a story that 'fits in' with other such stories. There's a network that tries to keep various peoples stories 'in-sync' so they jibe a bit at least. In the 80s came out a few UFO texts, these didn't get out to just anyone and low and behold, much of the commercial UFO exploitation of the 90s is based off of bits of these (or this) 'Ur' text. Those who come out with stuff that contradict others' stories get put-downs and/or ignored. The higher up the network you contradict or contend with, the more vehement the reaction. Rupert got in trouble the moment he said (in effect), "well, the 911 thing isn't going to be exposed it looks like.... we've got peak oil coming, time to make your plans and move on people." The rest of the industry didn't like that, hence... they suddenly try to bring him down.

Consider, we have zero ability to _prove_ anything to anyone. there's no way to _prove_ something to someone if they aren't willing to believe. Believe in what? The message or the messenger? I hate to dump this on the board, but how the heck can we say we know anything beyond a point? I mean yes, the WTC fell down, but much beyond that and collectively recognized evidence gets harder and harder to find. Nothing is really credible, anything can be faked, who can be trusted, the only winner seems to be the one who shouts loudest and scares the herd into a different direction.

All that said, connecting dots isn't such a bad pastime, some dots _are_ credible and verifiable.

12:17 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Light and Sound machines to control your mind... low frequency & healing...
http://www.toolsforwellness.com/

"Used at NASA & by Research Experts"

http://www.photosonix.com/light_and_sound_technology.htm

"promote deep sleep and assist in achieving calm and meditative states"

USsearch returns--
Rene A. Welch age 50 Tucson AZ

USsearch returns--
Ronald J. Logsdon age 49 Scottsdale, Phoenix, Flagstaff, Sedona

Naomi Niles Sedona (thanks google)
also has book--
Woman Called Sha Ron
Niles, Naomi; Paperback; Code: BE-0759673470

Could this be Ronald Logsdon's father?
''Once we built the Endeavour, we broke the mold,'' says John
Logsdon, director of the Space Policy Institute at George Washington University and a member of the NASA Advisory Council.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:tXQwfhs2AAoJ:aemes.mae.ufl.edu/~cfdweb/cgi-bin/PDF/miami_herald.pdf+Logsdon+nasa&hl=en

Hmmm..... then I read some articles by Greg Szymanski.

From the June 2005 Idaho Observer:
Three separate stories surfaced

In 1987, two of the many bin Laden Brothers told an unsuspecting American couple about U.S. government plans to topple the Twin Towers and bring about war in the Middle East.
Rene Welch of New Mexico and Ronald Logsdon of Philadelphia tell an incredible story of how they were approached and held captive for several hours in their Arizona home

In 1976, a U.S. Army private said his unit was asked to create the "perfect terrorist plan," using the Twin Towers as its target and box cutters and airplanes as weapons.
Timothy McNiven of Washington reported that his army unit, stationed in Germany, was ordered to devise the "perfect terrorist plan" way back in 1976, using the Twin Towers as the main target.

During the 1960s and the Cuban missile crisis, secret documents were recently leaked, revealing "Operation Northwoods," a secret plan to blame Cuban leader Fidel Castro for a "Pearl Harbor" event to take place in Miami Beach. Although the plan to demolish high-rise hotels was blocked by President Kennedy, it shows the military had already figured out and planned to use another "Pearl Harbor" to justify war against Castro.

http://proliberty.com/observer/20050613.htm

Codename Grillfire

http://www.codenamegrillfire.com/index.php?n=9&id=9

That's my nickels worth of research.

12:21 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

way to go nonny.
know of someone down here 'channeling' group entity called 'sha vril'. lots of 'peace, love and light' and 'we are creating a new race.'

1:22 a.m.  
Blogger ELFIS said...

My two cents worth ... I find the interconnections with this stories particulars (channellers, cattle mutilation researchers, bin Laden brothers and alleged NASA mind control sub-scontractors) rather intrigueing.

First of all, I can find nothing on line RE: "NASA's Application Technical Center" aka "NASA's Application Technical Institute". Perhaps someone with better web trawling abilities can dig something up.

Secondly, the reference to NASA mind control research ... over the years, in my investigations into UFOs, Mind Kontrol research, etc., I've repeatedly come across hard to verify (but rather likely) "evidence" of actual projects by NASA researching ESP, "gifted" children, Out-Of-Body Experiences (Astral Travel) and actual MK-Ultra styled mind control research. So it's not THAT hard for me to suspend disbelief and imagine that the basic premise of these "witnesses" working for NASA might be true. However, the apt question asked by at least some of the commentators to this post of Jeff's remains... WHY would the alleged bin Laden family members CHOOSE THESE PARANORMAL RESEARCHERS? Was it BECAUSE of their connection to "secret" NASA sub-contracted projects?

It reminds me of a friend who claims he was approached by the founder (Asahara Shoko) of the Japanese cult Aum Shinrikyo before the infamous Japan subway gas attacks. This friend related a scenario nearly IDENTICAL to that described in this article involving the bin Laden family. He felt he was approached because of his association with millenium contactee Terence McKenna. My friend said the cult was trying to procure large amounts of psychedelics. And remember, this cult is known to use various mind control techniques and technologies including the Light and Sound Brainwave entrainment devices alluded to by another commentator in this thread.

Curiouser and curiouser ...

Elfis SMiles

12:15 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great links Zero Haven, thank you.

1:25 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, it's the bin Ladens - the family of that oh-so-slippery bad guy we just CAN'T seem to catch...

Osama - well-known stooge. And now his trustworthy, not bad-like-him FAMILY is turning on the very folks who gave them that special 'get out of America free' plane trip just after 9/11? As they say on the internet, 'BWAHAHAHAHA'

Investigate the put options? Follow the money? Think REAL HARD about who really benefits from this Grand Coup op?

Heavens, no, 'rigorous' researchers work on...stuff like this?

More smoke, more noise, drawing debate and research AWAY from the perps.

7:49 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

More background information in Greg Szymanski's article of May 12, 2005

http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/article/1518131/25592.htm

9:07 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

someone (jeff?) was reminded of UFO encounters. Many such encounters result in warnings (often vague) of impending catastrophe, often accompanied by some weirdness that makes the story unbelievable. Many "abductees" are given such messages. Some folks concentrate on the now-familiar forms of abductee contact, but as Jacques Vallee and even John Mack (offed a few months ago) pointed out, many such encounters really made very little "linear" sense at all.

I am also reminded of the always just around the corner plan by the government to release the truth about aliens. I don't remember the former NASA guy who wrote books about it. It happened a few times I think...some filmmakers are contacted by the military and told they'll be shown footage and will be tasked to put the UFO truth out there. Never happens. A company is allegedly hired for a whole "exhibit" about the "truth". Never happens. Always impending...never arrives.

Getting off the weirdness part, it seems that this is also a possible disinfo technique. y2k...never happened (not the disaster, I mean.) Wayne Madsen's impending military coup should the '04 elections be fixed...never happened. I think ideas are floated...sometimes apocolyptic ideas...the same way they release "harmless" bacteria in various cities...just to track how the things spread.

So I don't know if we are dealing with a sociological, psychological, or even paranormal thing...probably a combination of the above. But there IS a pattern here.

7:00 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ok, well in answer to the obvious question, "WHY would the alleged bin Laden family members CHOOSE THESE PARANORMAL RESEARCHERS?"

I think I might have come up with something. the BLs wanted out and were hoping they could get infomation/equipment from these folks to use to 'deprogram' family members or other persons of interest. well, its possible expination at least.

2:01 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

those who claim that this is surely disinformation or a hoax might be right, but the danger is to leave it at that without digging into the substance of the story, as i think jeff was saying.

more important than busting disinfo agents is understanding the global ecological situation, because ecological factors more than anything else drive the course of history, and that course is fast approaching its most dramatic phase ever.

some of

3:48 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

those who claim that this is surely disinformation or a hoax might be right, but the danger is to leave it at that without digging into the substance of the story, as i think jeff was saying.

more important than busting disinfo agents is understanding the global ecological situation. ecological factors more than anything else drive the course of history, and that course is fast approaching its most dramatic phase ever.

i would like to know the following: have the elites always understood the ecological issues, going back forty years or so? have they been faking it since around 1980 in promoting the ideology of aggressive capitalism and marginalizing ecological thought? did they decide at some point that it wouldn't be possible to plan ahead, that there would inevitably be a dieoff? have they honed this outlook into specific plans to influence or even to manage the dieoff?

3:51 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

well rg, it sure looks that was to me. It may have been as early as 1970 when they reached the conclusions. Aroudn that time the RAND corp had just developed a powerful (for the time) computer system on which some of the first climate/environment/industrialization/population simulations where run. Publicly those simulations seemed 'early' in the debate, but for the higher ranks it was probably looked on as more confirmation of what was already considered a highly probable outcome.

Proof will never come though the info's all compartmentalized, and probably if anyone were to blow the whistle they know, a) they'll be ruined and mocked into irelevance anyway; and worst b) them and their familiy will oose the promised spot in the shelters. So... anyway, seems quite probable to me; but I wish it didn't.

12:00 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

another possibility is this was just a loyalty test they were running on these folks. A test they failed.

12:02 a.m.  
Blogger gary said...

OK, just for fun let me indulge in a little--let's call it Wellsian speculation. This does sound like a contactee report. So how do we really know that these "visitors" were really bin Ladens or that they were even HUMAN? It has been a few years since I've read "Operation Trojan Horse" but as I recall the "ultra-terrestrials" can see the future, if imperfectly.

9:54 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Having a biblical world view, I'm not surprised at 'any type diabolical behavior.'
Be they in government or hiding behind so-called church activity;
unredeemed sinful men are just being their normal self.
Why? Let's permit God's Word answer as follows:
"But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
II Timothy 3:13

7:04 a.m.  
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3:14 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi, I was friends with Ron Logsdon when he lived in NYC in the early/mid 1990s. My name is Jim McGuiness and if Ron reads this, I'd like to say what's up, your worship? I didn't know him to be a NASA engineer but I did meet folks he associated with who, among other things, insured satelites and were plugged in to the cutting edge of technology on several fronts. We haven't connected since '95 but he is real, damn smart, from Sedona and just about my age 50. It's entrely possible that he could work or have worled for NASA IMO.

1:59 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What strikes me as odd is the way they invoke NASA like it's some top secret, clandestine organization. Normally, invoking NASA in a UFO conspiracy theory makes me question your sanity. But to portray NASA as a spider weaving a web of deception and starting wars that have no baring on space travel? Hello, the moment the wars started, the govenrment pulled back the reins on NASA, diverting their funding to the war efforts.

Not only that, but the government can't keep secrets very well at all. Where's the documentation? it's been 20 years and we're only now getting word of mouth leaks? At least try to tie it into previously leaked REAL documents like the Northwoods documents.

9:18 a.m.  
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8:23 p.m.  
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