Friday, December 09, 2005

"I wish that hadn't happened"



What good am I if I know and don't do,
If I see and don't say, if I look right through you - Bob Dylan


Jack Houck is a retired defense consultant who spent 42 years with Boeing Aerospace as a systems consultant. He is also a "researcher of paranormal phenomena," who has been throwing "psychokinesis parties" for 25 years.

Houck dates his interest in the paranormal to the mid-70s, when he learned of Stanford Research Institute's remote viewing program, and was encouraged by SRI's Harold Puthoff and Russell Targ to conduct his own experiments. The results persuaded Houck of the reality of remote viewing and the significance of psi research, and ever since he has been instructing thousands around the world, many in defense industries, "how to use the power of your mind" to perform PK feats such as metal bending. Including, yes, spoons.

Here Houck describes his "first PK Party":

[W]e were sitting in a circle and I had passed out my grandparents antique silverware --- it has all been dedicated to science now. There was a lot of giggling and laughter because I do not think people believed that this was really going to happen. I don't think that I thought it was going to happen either. However, I was testing this conceptual model and had to follow through with the experiment. All of a sudden a fourteen-year-old boy had the fork he was holding begin to have the head slowly fall over. He started screaming and yelling; he jumped up out of his chair. That got everyone's attention so that everyone in the room saw the fork bending over. As I looked around the room, everyone's eyes were huge as they stared at this boy's fork. I like to call this an instant, belief system change. All of a sudden, other people found that the silverware they were holding became soft in their hands. They later described it as if the metal became a little warm and felt like putty in their hands. It seems to lose its structure for a few seconds. The metal stays soft for between five and thirty seconds. Here they were, finding what is normally nice hard silverware becoming soft and structureless in their hands. Most of the people in the room then began to wildly bend up the silverware. They were screaming and yelling, and this was a real peak emotional event occurring in my living room. In the middle of all this pandemonium I reached back to my dining room table and grabbed the big steel rod, handed it to the fourteen-year-old boy and said, "Bend this!!" He looked at me and said "I can't do that." Then I said "Don't ever say can't --- that is like putting a block in your mind." He agreed to try and started rubbing his hand up and down the steel rod. After about five minutes I again heard him yelling. He was jumping up and down in the middle of the living room. With no more force than simply moving his hands while holding the rod over his head, he bent that rod into a 270 degree turn. The next day I rushed over to the Sears store and bought all the rest of the rods that size in their bin and took them into the laboratory. We had the head metallurgist try to physically bend one of the similar rods. He was a big man, about 200 lbs. He was not able to bend the rod until he finally bent it over his knee, using all his might --- red faced and all. Seeing the difference between the young man doing it with no apparent effort at the PK Party, and the big metallurgist using a tremendous effort to bend it physically, really impressed me.

Retired Major General Albert Stubblebine, then commanding officer of the US Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM), was an attendee of Houck's parties, and was so impressed he added it to the itinerary of a retreat for senior INSCOM staff officers at a conference facility near Leesburg, Virginia. Jim Schnabel tells the story in his book Remote Viewers:

Someone handed out spoons and forks, and Stubblebine gave a short talk on how it was done, and then 25 to 30 colonels and generals stood around holding these eating utensils and staring at them, waiting for something to happen.

At one point, a somewhat skeptical colonel turned his head to say something to a colleague, and as he did, his fork suddenly drooped into a ninety-degree angle. Everyone looked at him and his fork, at which point the fork bent back up, then down again, and finally settled into an angle of about forty-five degrees. The colonel whose fork it was put the thing down, shaking his head, evidently unsettled. He was a Christian, and later would denounce the entire thing as the trickery of the devil.

"I wish that hadn't happened," said the colonel.

I don't think there can be true comprehension of how America got here from there, without assuming that sentiment has been often thought and voiced in the halls of the cryptocracy.

Psychokinesis should be only a mild offense to the psyche of someone raised with the convensions of either mainstream faith or anti-faith, and I don't mean to suggest that spoonbending is the work of the devil. But other things colonels and Christians have found themselves mixed up in could certainly be described as such. Mind control, for instance. Think of brainwashing and hypnotism in the alleged service of national security: of being able to take a life in your hands and make of it an experimental marionette like Candy Jones, or a programmed patsy as Sirhan Sirhan almost certainly was. I have to think that somewhere in the beta-testing of human subjects, consciences were appalled at the successes - "I wish that hadn't happened" - but because success was the only condition, just as with an unwise black magician, the work continued, and was refined. Subjects became younger, methods became harsher to better imprint more elaborate and deviant programming. "And I really wish that hadn't happened."

We should be able to see how this happens. Acting against one's conscience in a relatively small matter can set up a logic which justifies actions more terrible in order to see the "pay off" for the first offense. And the way is eased, naturally, in a military culture where private conscience is expected to stand down for "national security." (Though over time that mask has slipped, and it has become simply what it is: horror and high crime.)

I may be wrong, but I doubt there are great wizards in the Pentagon. I imagine, instead, a bunch of sociopathic punks playing with the Necronomicon and thinking they're they have the power, seeing something about it seems to work but not understanding why, or how that could be a bad thing. Meanwhile, the silent witnesses and conflicted perpetrators mutter to themselves, "I wish that hadn't happened."

51 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

These are the potential whistleblowers. The people who have seen and, having been witnesses to terrible things and wishing they had not seen those things... someday they will have to say something or lose their soul. Or their mind. Whatever.

7:57 p.m.  
Blogger kelley b. said...

Remember it's not what these Pentagon people saw, it's what they thought they saw.

Psychokinesis doesn't happen. However, people who think they've seen and experienced it do happen. When they're the ones responsible for national security and sitting on top of most the world's nuclear weapons, you've got to hope none of those birds fly by force of will alone.

9:09 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Or their life...

It depends on how tightly weaved into the very fabric of government BushCo has become. The final outcome of Plamegate will only force them to decide in which direction to take their assault on
"we the people".

Thanks, Jeff. You're always helping me to connect the dots.

9:10 p.m.  
Blogger TonyForesta said...

Having recently read Jon Ronson's "The Men Who Stare at Goats", which details Major General Albert Stubblebine III's futile attempt to introduce psychic healing to the "operators" at Fort Brag, - I found this - like every thread on this site both gripping and disturbing. The book is almost comical in the way it nonchalantly report the government's dabbling in things paranormal, the morphing of Stubblebines' psychic healing idea's into First Earth Battalion Jedi Warriors and black and white Ninja's, and Barney the Purple Dinosaur as an instrument of torture at Abu Gharaib. Oh, - and of course there is the stuff about psychically bursting the hearts of of goats. It is a must read.

I have not yet perused the various links, and will follow up after a more thorough research, - but what I know is that there are two paths. Simply put - one is the path of good, there other is not good.

It seem obvious that fascist elements in the Bush government are firmly devoted to, and traveling down the path of "notgood".

Did you catch this interesting buzz yesterday?

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/002000.html

9:23 p.m.  
Blogger AJ said...

Excellent post as usual.

But Jeff, if those 'punks' at the Pentagon really
do know
how to use the Necronomicon , ...
I fear you might soon be getting more than annoying phone calls...

10:00 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Although I'm grudgingly beginning to believe these outre theories of yours, I can't help thinking that there's an element of collusion involved between the controllers & the controlled.
As someone who wasted far too much of his lifetime arguing with folk, who I thought should've known better, about what a stupid idea it would be to invade Iraq, only to have them fire back with such astute observations as:
"But....but...he killed his own people."
&
"He's another Hitler."
& my personal favorite
"Why do they hate America?"
I've come to the inescapable conclusion the people apparently just ache to believe.

& the belief system that they're aching to buy into just doesn't have to be all that well designed.
It does have to be on tv though.
That's essential.

Christ buddy, you want to talk mind control...
.....sit in a room with a bunch of folk watching their favorite sit-com
& watch them instead.....
......that blank, yet somehow beautific, look on their faces is utterly creepy.

10:35 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

An important perspective I think Jeff is missing.

One primary reason that so many intelligence assets have been instrumental in setting up wierd cults
"crowley/order of the golden dawn, aquino/temple of set, 4pi, hubbard/scientology, etc" is that the ruling powers have realized that christianity is the best mass mind control system they have.

Conversely christians need satan and demonstrations of satan to maintain their hardline faith in God and the elected leaders. This creates a binary system and whenever satan or
evil is pointed out by the human leaders (axis of evil) the humans are left with only 1 choice, follow the leader, because christianity and hebrew language has created a binary system.

I recommend everyone of you read,

The alphabet versus the Goddess

http://www.alphabetvsgoddess.com/

Another primary reason for the intelligence groups involvement in cults is the obvious criminal advantage of no oversight, drug running, sexual blackmail, assasination by MK and bonding by human sacrifice for all of the above reasons with a run off effect of any exposed elements keep the christian sheep believing in God and not taking their own destiny.

Some christians on the board will react to my unbiased evaluation of reality, but seriously, ask yourself:

Would an *all powerful*, *all loving* God create a system where freewill results in global pain, suffering, fear, death and as we've learned ritual sexual abuse and sacrifice?

It is insane to think an all powerful all loving god would create freewill in the form of "evil". That in itself shows that god is either 1 evil or 2 not all that powerful.

Why wouldn't an all loving all powerful god create a system where men can choose to live eternally in God's world, or eternally in a *differrent equally pleasent universe that God merely visits to say hello (in other words he doesn't force you to make a choice, hmm, freewill, what freewill?)

Don't tell me an All powerful god couldn't design a freewill system that allowed happyness or long life on both sides.

Christianity is not up for debate. It is simply wrong. Anything you say will make you look foolish as you have not read what i stated above and understood it.
If you can do basic math, then readdress these issues on your own time.

This business of eating each other, well, it's a bit karmic. I can't sort it out, but the world, the reality around us is dark and not the work of an all loving all powerful god who paradoxically created satan and the parameters of evil.. that's total insanity to
believe this could have happened and was *loving + intelligent design*

Next,

Lets think about why the government doesn't want you to stop beliving in God and take your own destiny...

This would mean that not only would you be accountable to yourself for every action before it happens (and not able to ask God for forgiveness after the fact) but also that humans with this new grounded responsibility would expect the same from the governement and accountability is the worste thing to ask of the ruler because they feel they are special.

Scary thought (accountability), so lets keep everyone Christian... Ohh wait everyone's started taking drugs and is forming non-conformist thinking groups that are trying to live in harmony with the land. They are voiding capitalism, they are voiding societal rule, they are undermining the social fabric of christainity.

Hmm, guess we better poison them on camera A LA Jim Jones.. See kids, see what you get when you break away from american style life? Charles Manson, Son of Sam, small reminders like dog slayings, all this crap is useful in keeping the christians and society at large in a capitalistic mode.

Why does the CIA fund films involving high strangeness? Well christians have this nice habit of polarizing everything to good or evil when it can't be understand (like a bent spoon). And at the end of the day, the UFO stuff would really actually endanger the establishment so if there are UFO's and they are physical, then housten we've got a problem, they're discovery would re-write human behaviour and government. Gotta do it slow, maybe create a cover of hypno-satanic sexual encounters to muddy the UFO phenomenon, but hey, this is useful too right?

Remember night air, it used to be evil...

Throw your chains down. It's been a waste of time.
Start looking at reality and stop being so *#@*&& paranoid. Everything is happening according to a very obvious mechanism. The problem is you've been trying to view it through polarized glasses.

Things that need to be done;

a.) every citizen needs to become a thinking citizen.
this involves removing the soft MK TV object from your environment

b.) this means regulating how you use the internet on your own terms and not wallowing in conspiracy but doing something for every hour you read and understand you spend 1 hour fighting back.

c.) understand why christianities fundamentals are a paradox and the polarity it creates. How this is naturally leveraged by politicians

d.) understand where all the bad is and who it works, but then understand that a transformation of peoples views of reality doesn't hing on them believing in SRA. It hinges on their getting rid of their TV and taking over their own time. It hinges on their giving up fear, because we are going to die and this is true. Waiting in fear is wasted energy and prison.

e.) we must educate our fellow humans in how to view reality, how to find happiness, how to replace the tv and internet with activities that are alive.

g.) we need to flyer... everyone needs to be reminded that death is natural and that the time to
do something is now.

f.) remember the past was always better and the future will always be worse because (a, the future's unknown and b, humans are optimists so they discard bad memories).

things are bad, but you're not wearing a chain swinging an axe in a gulag yet. many people are doing this at the moment. so, my suggestion is that you start building a real society around you by getting involved in culture or building culture if there is none, because the dark system and the capitalist mind wants everyone living seperate in fear and unable to rely on each other, only the drug store. If we go the other direction, then the system nulls itself. America needs real people living fun lives doing things together.

Where you need to be is here, right now.

see ya

12:57 a.m.  
Blogger Et in Arcadia ego said...

tonyforesta said: "Did you catch this interesting buzz yesterday?

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/002000.html"


There's a remarkable similarity to the agent described in the 'Jacob's Ladder' film in that article..

I think there are definately people that could/should come forward and help disperse the perpetual grind of fact vs fiction, but the Modus Operandi of our culture has long been indoctrinated to look after yourself before others. For a highly trained individual working in a niche field, it starts out simple:

Talk and lose your security clearance

Talk again and lose your job

Talk again and get roughed up by some shady local wildlife.

Talk again and *poof*

You're gone.

And I doubt that the people inside are less vulnerable to that disappearing meme than we are; I think they are terrorized themselves by it. We're on the outside looking in; they aren't. One of us might pull an Icarus and have his/her History Eraser Button pressed, but there's not much of a reason for John Q. to get a water board session..Two bullets to the head, though?

Sure, why not?

After weeks of MSM saturation, "Torture" sure seems to be a buzzword these days..I wonder if it's more of a broadcast meant for potential whistleblowers than a warning to us, cause in their eyes, we're all a bunch of stoopid sheeple and ain't got the mustard to stand against the Wermacht..I mean I get outraged when I consider things like alledged CIA dungeons, but I doubt my sweat has the same scent as one struggling with the decision to come forward and what the cost of doing so might ultimately be for them..

"My gang will get you.."
Jim Morrison - American Prayer

Compelling words, even if they are hollow in reality..

Has anyone considered the possibility that there may in fact be absolutely NO CIA torture bases here or abroad? That these 'leaked' rumors are nothing more than another form of terrorism from TPTB that keeps ALL parties in their place? Kinda like how underbudget Highway Patrols use cars parked with a dummy in them in speed trap locations to deter speeders.

What a Psy-Op that would have been..

Ever provocative, Jeff.

Cheers,
D

1:17 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous 12:57 - that was great. I skipped over some of the middle but I will try to read it again. You have some real wisdom there. Kill your TV, use the internet thoughtfully and get out with real human beings and enjoy being alive. Amen.

2:40 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Et in Arcadia ego said:

Has anyone considered the possibility that there may in fact be absolutely NO CIA torture bases here or abroad? That these 'leaked' rumors are nothing more than another form of terrorism from TPTB that keeps ALL parties in their place?

I have thought about things like that in a theoretical way -- though, oddly enough, it hadn't occurred to me that the current situation might be an example.

Up to now, they've been able to keep a lid on the US citizenry through relatively velvet glove forms of control -- propaganda, consumerism, jingoism, and so forth. But as the economy goes south and the cheery little wars give way to big grinding wars, the iron fist is likely to come out more and more, and we may learn what it's like to be governed by raw terror.

"Step out of line, the man comes and takes you away."

However, I think rumors of torture are probably most effective when they're backed up by at least a little real torture. One of the recent stories about the CIA prisons said there were only 11 prisoners in them, and they'd been hastily moved from Europe to the North African desert in advance of Condi's visit. Eleven prisoners sounds like about the right order of things.

9:32 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Annonymous 12:57

Some of your points are good. But you are being naive and self assured about how mind control works, thinking christian = mind control. Mind control is as old as the human race. And the principles and mechanism may be very different, opposite, or else just much more complex than your over-simplifications. Josephus wrote that Nimrod saw that in order to control the people according to his purposes, (like the beehive model) he had to destroy their belief in the transcendent God. Without a spiritual and personnal connection to God, people can be induced to look to the state, or the ruling elite, as the pre-emminent powers dominating their reality.
You are confusing the mind-liberating state of pure faith in God with institutional religion. Meanwhile, you are blind to the opposite pole of atheistic statism, exemplified in Marxist communism. Both atheism and religiosity are very potent mind-control paradigms, because they are really just different forms of the same thing. And that is disregard and replacement of faith in your Creator in favor of something that offers the baser security of something more tangible. This is what instills fear and control.
On the other hand, faith in and understanding of the transcendent Creator of your soul (for you are not self-existing) is both rational and liberating from fear.
Jesus said, "the kingdom of heaven is wihtin you." His name was Immanual - "God with us." That knowlege and experience of the direct personal presence of the Holy Spirit is true liberation from evil, and the source of the only power and light to accomplish real and lasting good.

9:34 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To anyone confronting my post and suggesting christianity is useful:

I read through your argument, it was mumbo jumbo.

I am not an atheist and my post does not suggest that I am. Nor am I a christian. Re-read my post as directed and this time try to follow along as the the word of god crumbles under scrutiny.

In your case, it is very likely when you die things that you are not prepared for will confront you. If you do not touch the earth, you will be lost when you leave it.

What I'm really more interested in these days is information theory and it's application to art as a transformer of peoples behaviours.

i love my bed, goodnight

10:05 a.m.  
Blogger Et in Arcadia ego said...

anonymous said: "What I'm really more interested in these days is information theory and it's application to art as a transformer of peoples behaviours."

I dropped a sandbag on my leg to avoid a knee-jerk reaction to this. Having successfully done so, as an artist myself, I'd be intrigued to see some examples of this Art that holds your interest.

11:07 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't tell me an All powerful god couldn't design a freewill system that allowed happyness or long life on both sides."


Definitions of Free will on the Web:

* freedom of self determination and action independent of external causes.

------

So, in addition to the abolishment of religion, you are calling for a repeal of the laws of cause and effect?

11:32 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 12:57 said:
" ...christianity is the best mass mind control system they have. ...

Conversely christians need satan and demonstrations of satan to maintain their hardline faith in God and the elected leaders. This creates a binary system and whenever satan or
evil is pointed out by the human leaders (axis of evil) the humans are left with only 1 choice, follow the leader ..."



If this is the intended goal of "Christianity" (whatever that is), it's not working and hasn't been for decades. First, it has been decades since the mainline liberal denominations stopped teaching the existence of a literal devil and kingdom of spiritual darkness. If they believe in evil it is only as a fuzzy abstraction. Evangelicals believe in the devil, and will have prayer vigils to "take cities" by "spiritual warfare," but even most evangelical churches and ministries dissuade talk about actual Satanism, ritual abuse, human sacrifice and the like. These things are still considered "fringe" subjects for fringe preachers and sects and "conspiracy theorists."

I will agree with you, however, that for many centuries, something called "Christianity" was used (by decidedly un-Christian forces) in such a way. Nowadays, however, the means of control are quite different. The average American, not to mention the average European, cannot be described as anywhere near devout. Most are not regular churchgoers.

Would an *all powerful*, *all loving* God create a system where freewill results in global pain, suffering, fear, death and as we've learned ritual sexual abuse and sacrifice?


Yes, if that were the only way to teach us the fruit of disobedience while still leaving our free will intact.


Why wouldn't an all loving all powerful god create a system where men can choose to live eternally in God's world, or eternally in a *differrent equally pleasent universe that God merely visits to say hello (in other words he doesn't force you to make a choice, hmm, freewill, what freewill?)


A universe in which God did not exist would be more like hell. Believe me, you wouldn't want to live there. Anyway, God does give us a choice: the choice of life or death. Death meaning, eternal extinction. I don't believe in eternal torment in hellfire since the Bible does not actually teach it. It is the result of an amalgamation of Hebrew/Christian thought with Greek philosophy. I would heartily recommend this article which clarifies this much-misunderstood issue.


Christianity is not up for debate. It is simply wrong. Anything you say will make you look foolish as you have not read what i stated above and understood it.


Don't be too sure of yourself.


that's total insanity to
believe this could have happened and was *loving + intelligent design*



Whatever the limitations of human understanding at a given time, it should not be difficult to understand that design is the result of purposely applied intelligence.

Your theory that belief in God negates personal responsibility, while atheism reinforces same, doesn't make a lot of sense. If there is no higher authority to which we must be accountable -- who holds us responsible -- then why should we take personal responsibility for our actions? Also, without a higher source of standards for our behavior, persona responsibility has little meaning. If there is no God, all things are permissible. In fact, that's pretty much the credo of Satanism. ARe you a Satanist?


This would mean that not only would you be accountable to yourself for every action before it happens (and not able to ask God for forgiveness after the fact)


Forgiveness after the fact does not in any way negate accountability. God's forgiveness is with respect to eternal consequences, but the temporal consequences of our actions still apply. Also, the Bible warns against taking God's forgiveness for granted and using it as cover for habitual sin. It doesn't work that way.

Ohh wait everyone's started taking drugs and is forming non-conformist thinking groups that are trying to live in harmony with the land. They are voiding capitalism, they are voiding societal rule, they are undermining the social fabric of christainity.


If you are as smart as you imply, then you ought to know better than to confuse Christianity with capitalism!



a.) every citizen needs to become a thinking citizen.
this involves removing the soft MK TV object from your environment

b.) this means regulating how you use the internet on your own terms and not wallowing in conspiracy but doing something for every hour you read and understand you spend 1 hour fighting back.



Mostly good suggestions with which I agree.


so, my suggestion is that you start building a real society around you by getting involved in culture or building culture if there is none, because the dark system and the capitalist mind wants everyone living seperate in fear and unable to rely on each other, only the drug store. If we go the other direction, then the system nulls itself. America needs real people living fun lives doing things together.



That sounds a lot like Christian teaching. See, you've picked up more useful material from the Bible than you think. ;)

mr e

2:01 p.m.  
Blogger messianicdruid said...

Anonymous 12:57 said: “Don't tell me an All powerful god couldn't design a freewill system that allowed happiness or long life on both sides. Christianity is not up for debate. It is simply wrong. Anything you say will make you look foolish as you have not read what I stated above and understood it.”

You have made some excellent suggestions. You are to be commended for recognizing that there is a “tension” in creation. It is no accident. Too many seem to never hear it. Your problem is in depending on your meat-brain and it’s ability to do math to resolve it.

In music there are certain chords which contain conflicting or discordant notes. These chords set up an emotional tension until the chord is resolved. This is a very common musical technique, used to play upon the emotions of the listener and draw him into the music by forcing him psychologically to demand harmony. Discord torments the mind of the musician, in order to maximize the feeling of relief when the harmonious chord is struck and the tension resolved.
It is much like the cliffhangers in books or television programs. All are temporary tensions designed to make the listeners demand a resolution.
God, too, has employed this technique in the music of the spheres and in the book of history. Imputing death and corruption to mankind and to creation in general has produced a judicial tension that demands resolution. Paul says that God certainly will not leave creation hanging. The disharmony and injustice is only temporary. In fact, Paul says that the injustice that caused the tension will be MORE THAN COMPENSATED when the final chord of history is struck. And so Paul reminds us in Romans 8:18,
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
And again, he says in 2 Corinthians 4:17,
17 For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison,
Paul is reminding us that the injustices of life are not only temporary, but will be more than righted at the last day when He restores all things.
Before you determine that this is all just “happy talk” and that “its not up for debate” you should know there is much more at: www.gods-kingdom.org/CreationsJub/CJch13.html

Amen to Anonymous 9:34. If you are really interested in “information theory” read anything by Bonnie Guant some of which is available thru www.wexclub.com/aup

2:02 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 9:34: Spoken like a true sage! Belief in a transcendant God is the sine qua non of liberty. Anything less means a slavery to that which is lower, or as Paul put it, the "weak and beggarly elements" of this world. Whether they be psuedo-gods and goddesses, gurus, churches, countries, governments, celebrities, or even ourselves -- when we don't put our primary trust and allegiance in the One Creator we will wind up placing it in a divided multitude of created things.

While Anon 12:57 replies and, with no sense of irony, references "informationan theory"! The very branch of study that is proving the existence of an intelligent Designer of some sort.

"DNA functions like a software program. We know from experience that software comes from programmers. We know generally that information-whether inscribed in hieroglyphics, written in a book or encoded in a radio signal-always arises from an intelligent source. So the discovery of information in the DNA molecule, provides strong grounds for inferring that intelligence played a role in the origin of DNA, even if we weren't there to observe the system coming into existence." (Stephen C. Meyer)

3:00 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

mr e

3:00 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Also, 9:34 referenced Jesus' statement that "The kingdom of God is within you" and his name, "God With Us." Have you ever considered the meaning of his self-applied appellation, "the son of man"? The usual explanation is that this was a traditional Hebrew title for the Messiah, based in an Old Testament prophecy. But it has occurred to me that it may have really been a cryptic reference to every man. What do you think about that?


Lastly, thanks to Messianicdruid for adding his words of wisdom and for the link. I haven't read it in depth yet, but from skimming it over, I agree with their "big picture" of the necessitiy of evil and the coming restoration of all things.

3:18 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

3x abstraction is interesting but not useful to me. I

It's been a long time since anyone managed to invoke art as a social transformation mechanism. I have some theories that I am applying and refining. This forum is not one of them. I must be going but first:

To the people who have spewed religious mumbo jumbo and new age interpretations of the bible,
my message was not for you however i'll write a short note to address your concerns with my arguments.

1.)
Your generalizations regarding what today's christian church is and is not are wrong. Of course preachers don't bring up a child molestation cases, CNN does that for them, and each church goer individually says "ohh my, the world is evil, god save us" and you know where that person will be sunday morning. Rather than actually putting any energy toward reforming society or fighting institutions and elements that encourage child molestation

Judeo-Christian apocalyptic fatalism.

2.) Christians go around casting spells (prayer)
in the name of god trying to influence reality, which is the most disgusting and childish thing i've ever seen - thinking they have enough perspective to call on some invisible all powerful being that would then have interest in changing some bit of reality for them...

yes, spells and prayers, are essentially the same thing because it's not who you ask to do your work, it's what you ask them to do, and all the local witches are only asking for good things.

Are christians asking God that johnny's family stops molesting him or Bush gets back on the path of rightousness because we need godly leaders.

You'd be surprised how many times bush has been invoked in prayer in churches in this country.

I sometimes wonder if their are forces behind most religions attempting to mislead people so that after death they can be more easily caught for food.

To the christian, semi-christian and new-age christian, realize my points were not all inclusive of reality, they are simply points, little bits of reality that should be accepted due to their self evident truths. If these points run headlong into whatever crummy re-interpretation of judeo-christianity you've got going then great, dig your way out.

-discordia for a day

5:54 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous 3:00 said:

Belief in a transcendant God is the sine qua non of liberty. Anything less means a slavery to that which is lower, or as Paul put it, the "weak and beggarly elements" of this world. Whether they be psuedo-gods and goddesses, gurus, churches, countries, governments, celebrities, or even ourselves -- when we don't put our primary trust and allegiance in the One Creator we will wind up placing it in a divided multitude of created things.

You're about one part right in that and nine parts oh-so-wrong.

You're right that faith in something higher is the only true source of freedom from and ability to oppose everything that is lower.

But you're wrong about almost everything else.

Firstly, it has to be faith, not belief. Belief is a cage. Belief is taking your own limited knowledge and conclusions and turning them into an idol. So fuck belief.

Faith, on the other hand, is that which says, "There's something beyond all this. I can't perceive it or understand it or even get more than vague intuitive glimmerings that it exists. But if I trust myself completely to it, it will serve as a bridge over the abyss and support me without fail." That's real faith for you. The more insubstantial and unprovable the faith-ier.

Christians may talk a lot about faith, but they don't actually practice it. Too damn many books and traditions and proofs and mutual reassurances. Christianity is actually a mockery of faith. So is any religion that depends on dogmas and credos and sacred writings.

You know this, kind of. You're prepared to itemize pseudo-gods and churches as things to avoid being enslaved by. But you also think your god is different. That your god is real and all the others aren't. That's the problem with Christians in general. If they would just take the fine-honed skepticism they bring to the study of other religions and apply it to their own, they might arrive at a position of genuine understanding.

Like they say, "If you meet Buddha on the road, kill him!"

So fuck all gods, as well. They only get in the way of faith.

One other major problem I see in what you write is that you feel a need to give your god the name "Creator," and erect a dichotomy between the "One Creator" and "created things." But that's got to be wrong. If you will agree with me that a sign of that which is higher is its oneness, and a sign of that which is lower is its multitudinousness, then any view of the universe which is based on a dichotomy between creator and created has to be fairly low-level from the git-go.

One aspect of the problem is the very concept of creation. "Creation" means nothing less than the breaking of Being into alienation and multiplicity, as most of the world's religions have recognized. This poses a deep philosophical problem: How and why would something that was initially perfect fall into imperfection? There are a host of different answers to this question and as many different relgions to go along with them. But posing a Creator who is all-good and a Creation that is sinful and fallen has to be one of the more self-bollixing of those answers. If you're going to orient yourself around the question at all, it's far more useful to regard cosmogenesis as an act of self-creation and see what that thought can take you.

5:58 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

On the "son of man" thing, it is my understanding that there was nothing particularly cryptic about it. It was an emphatic way of saying "I" in Aramaic, which doesn't have a word for "I" as such. "Son of God" has also been much abused. It refered originally to a state of faith rather than a particular ancestry.

That said, I'm not sure if there is much value in Jeff's comments being packed with 1000 word tracts arguing for and against the existence of God. They shed relatively little light on the matters raised in Jeff's essays and they are hard to wade through and quite offputting. If I was a working for an agency intent on diluting the impact of Jeff's ideas then simulating an irrelevant holy war such as this would look like a very good idea.

6:14 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

(Not Anonymous 12:57)

I grew up with many devout and/or churchgoing evangelicals and mainline protestants in Texas and other parts of the South. Invariably, 90% of them were dogmatic Republicans and blind consumers of mainstream views. At bottom they were just plain materialists seeking comfort for their (our shared) human dilemma.

As my mother has said, "I would be a Christian if it wasn't for Christians." And she IS a Christian! She was merely passing on a phrase that made sense to her because it holds a grain of truth.

By the same token, who can deny that Christ was a great spiritual leader in human history? And who could go wrong in living by his words? Just leave out the shallow metaphsyics about being born again and who goes to heaven or hell and what is good and evil.

"The last Christian died on the cross." -Nietzsche

6:28 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

> we must educate our fellow
> humans in how to view reality,
> how to find happiness, how to
> replace the tv and internet
> with activities that are alive.

Really? And what or whose version of "reality" and "happiness" have you in mind?

Rather "undemocratic" of you to assume that your view of reality and happiness is the correct one.

However, I got rid of my TV three years ago, and I don't miss it a bit.

9:38 p.m.  
Blogger AJ said...

"So fuck all gods, as well. They only get in the way of faith."

Damn Starroute, did the nuns beat you in school?
I would be very hesitant to curse anyone's "Gods", even if I thought they were being misled.

The whole point of "faith" is that there must be something (hopefully good) that started all of this, is more intelligent and

has the gamebook.

Otherwise it's Hedonism.
If you want to cross that bridge-
you better have faith in something that *already*
had made the other side you're going to.
aj

10:17 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Correction to Nietzsche:

The first and last SINLESS Christian died on the cross.

I agree with 'santa', it would be better to stay on topic.

My purpose above was to respond to someone’s comments to the effect that belief in the christian God is tantamount to mind control.

Josephus claimed that Nimrod's policy was to destroy faith in the God of Noah, for the very purpose of enabling him to control the people of Babel by his own devices. And of course his own device was to set up Institutional Religion.
My point was we should distinguish between personal faith in God, and Institutional Religion, of any flavor. They are not synonymous, and it is simplistic to fail to make that distinction.

While I.R. is inherently a control apparatus, so can any ideology be subverted to the designs of the idealogues. Marxism certainly comes to mind here.

My faith in the transcendent, omnipotent, benevolent Creator, gives me hope, and therefore courage to face the unknown. Without that faith, I would be in doubt and confusion and likely fear. Hate would inevitably follow. These are the classic pre-requisite elements for mind-control. My faith in God, as demonstrated and taught by Yeshua, is a resistance to each of these elements.

10:22 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

> On the other hand, faith in and
> understanding of the
> transcendent Creator
> of your soul (for you are not
> self-existing) is both rational
> and liberating from fear

I agree totally, and I am not a member of any organized religion.

If you feel connected in some way to all things throughout all time, and if you feel that death is but a transition from a physical to a non-physical existence, then you are saying, "You can kill my body but not my Soul."

> Re-read my post as directed
> and this time try to follow
> along . . .

"Jawohl, mein fuehrer!"

> What I'm really more interested
> in these days is information
> theory and it's application to
> art as a transformer of peoples'
> behaviours.

Ah, so someone else (besides the government)is also interested in "information theory" and the "TRANSformation" of peoples’ behaviours.

Why is it that whenever I hear of people who are interested in "information theory," I think of Karl Rove. Likewise whenever I hear the word "transformation," I think of Cathy O’Brien.

It is the exercise of free will that makes life interesting.

Why do you demand that a Creator be all loving, or that It be responsible for preventing all Evil?

The act of creation, from the sub-atomic to the cosmic level, is a miracle in itself. Now you demand that the Creator also be held accountable to explain why Good and Evil coexist.

Perhaps the Creater is preoccupied with giving birth to yet another galaxy somewhere else and has decided that it is your responsibility to use your free will to sort things out.

11:13 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

aj said:

The whole point of "faith" is that there must be something (hopefully good) that started all of this, is more intelligent and has the gamebook.

And my whole point is that that there is no gamebook. There is no "higher" intelligence. There is nobody who knows all the answers in advance. The whole universe is an act of improv, making itself up as it goes alone, one step at a time.

When you're a little kid, you think your parents have all the answers, and that gives you a certain level of reassurance. But when you grow up and start asking them the difficult questions, they'll be quick to tell you they were just making it up as they went along too. They may even admit they never felt like real grownups, just like little kids pretending. (And that the things that made you most miserable when you were growing up were exactly the points where your parents listened to authority and did what the doctors told them or the teachers told them instead of what you really needed.)

So faith can't mean believing there's some uber-parent somewhere who really does know all the answers. That's just little-kid wish fulfillment.

But even if there are no sure answers in life, there are certain directional pointers. We humans recognize them intuitively and recite them to ourselves in coded form. "Strive upwards." "Seek the light." "Truth." "Beauty." "Love."

Holding fast to one of those in the face of anger, hatred, and degradation is real faith. If you want to add an extra term to the equation and say "God is love," I won't have too much of a beef with that -- as long as you don't try to define a god that is anything else but love.

But when you start imagining a god who's the equivalent of a dungeons & dragons gamemaster, sitting there with a rulebook and a bag of dice behind a concealing screen and chivying the players this way and that, you've lost me. That's not faith -- it's abdication of responsibility.

5:51 a.m.  
Blogger AJ said...

"Holding fast to one of those in the face of anger, hatred, and degradation is real faith.."

Starroute,

Well put.
But a void is a void is a void.
Nothing can come from nothing.
Why would it?
How could it?

Then we're back a square one-
and 'First Cause'.

The way you mix it determines if you end up with an omelette or quiche.

12:53 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

MORE SOURCES FOR YOU


Addressed to the Kelly B. and his ilk:

"Remember it's not what these Pentagon people saw, it's what they thought they saw. Psychokinesis doesn't happen."

Then you will hate the bit about what happened to cause the Pentagon to classify this whole "low watt combined with mental link" metal manipulation experience, or where heavy machinery took off flying and floating around the room to the chagrin of the unbelieving U.S. generals there...

A book for everyone.

This book is written by the very sane and very "reliable source" inclined British journalist Nick Cook, the aviation editor for Jane's Defense Weekly (the military tech revew magazine).

In his first book, Cook went looking for what documentation was left over concerning what the U.S. military knew about anti-gravity tech, basing his book on only hard sources, starting with regular newspapers for half a year immediately after World War II, which mentioned that such anti-grav tech would "revolutionize and make obsolete" whole infrastuctures of flight and transportation and energy sources.

Then, it's classified and gone.

The whole think was clamed down as top secret. Cook picks up its trail, writing a book on what is still publicly documentable and knowable about such technologies, which links the founder of the "Martin" side of Martin Marietta defense contractors, strange Canadian links, Nazi technological surveys conducted by the U.S. after WWII, and more.

In the process, Cook bumps or backs occassionally into some rather occult/psychokenesis links as well--particluarly with the "Hutchinson Effect" and its transmutation of metal, i.e., real live alchemy evidence of one element to another. Some may say that "that's impossible" though actually, it has been demonstrated in very small amounts for very low elements, though under some very Big Science conditions.

However, seems that another path is possible. The case was where "old tech" from WWII military warship salvage was strung together by a young male collector of gagetry who filled his whole apartment with the stuff. He liked to sit in the midst of it all, and turn it all on.

It has led to some very strange effects, including anti-grav on certain metal objects, levitation of them, and even transmutation of metals. Though mostly only in this guy's physical "mental electrical/interlink" presence. So what I wrote this for was that it is more connection to the psi issues mentioned in the original post here: some people are better than others at it, just as it seems to only work around this one particular guy, though it was definitely technologically "enhanced" as it were by the electronic equipment powerhouse around him in some manner.

My favorite recounting of this is when Cook relates that the angry peturbed general (or someone even higher I forget) was flown in to the Northwest to "witness" it, in a specially closed off area, and he almost gets his head cut off by a huge piece of old farm machinery that goes silently flying through the air at him.

Second, this phenomena of this man/machine "psychic help tool" is very similar to the "Psychic Chair" described in the Al Bielek materials that presumably took place at Montauk Point, near New York, which seemed to be a high level place of a lot of highly classified "black ops" work in this genre including (just being a reporter here) time/space wormholing creations, and travel down the openings. Real "human termination" Nazi experiements may have been going on for years after WWII right on Long Island regarding testing out this tech on the Montauk boys...

For more on that On that you should go to www.bielek.com. Some of what these people are talking about will change your whole perspective on the texture of physical reality--and what has been going on for 50 years in the dark of the Pentagon, or perhaps even more sinisterly, in the dark of very rich Illuminized groups simply doing it on their own....


I imagine the difficulty is in relating these stories merely in words. Many people will have a mental block, or an "emotional slide" (as the CIA spoonbenders/psi-controller psychologists like to call it), where one's mind can work fine discussing one topic, though there is a switch from capacities of great analysis to ones of great emotion that serve as a block on entering certain epistemological areas.

Guess what? Emotional slides/blocks cannot be entered into evidence though, Kelly B.

And to all, check out Nick Cook's book:

_The Hunt for Zero Point: Inside the Classified World of Anti-Gravity Technology_ (2001)

and

www.bielek.com

6:08 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You know, when it comes to the "conspiracy community" (for lack of a better term) I am always finding myself confronted again and again with "anti-Christian" statements, which wouldn't be so troubling if all "we" had was a difference in opinion; however, the self-righteous attitude of people making these statements causes me to wonder if these folks are really blind to the irony and hypocrisy of their own positions as presented in "conrast" to those "stupid, mind-controlled Christians" . . .

At the end of the day these folks are not anymore "openminded" than I am, they have merely taken a position based upon their own personal understanding of the universe, same as me.

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” Stephen F Roberts

Spending a lot of time detailing why each other is "full-of-it" seems rather divisive and inefficient to the spread of information. I can say that I KNOW Christianity is true and everything else is bullshit, which is my actual position, but I am not convinced that discussing that point is beneficial or really germane to spreading the important information about "the powers that are".

Peace

9:04 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Another good, thought provoking post that makes me attempt to think about the depths of the universe and my own conscience, doesn't get much better than that.

Concerning apparent acts of magic and such: I'm learning XML and how to write cascading style sheets for the web right now. XML is a fascinating tool, and extremely powerful, intuitive, simple and because of that, popular. Its a way to separate the content of a web page from its appearance.

For every bit of content on the page (text, images, etc), you first create a name, then assign it's attributes, and then finally, you apply it to the content. It has rules, such as all content lie inside tags, and all tags must be closed. Basically, it gives me God-like power over any website that I have back end access to. I can make any content on the page do pretty much anything want, or look anyway I want.

The analogy of the internet to the universe is well known by now, thanks to movies like the Matrix. The website we view on the screen represents our experience, or "earth". But the reality is that the screen is simply an image created by the hidden, or "occult" code that lies behind. The code lies in the spirit world, or "heaven". The code of heaven controls the appearance of earth. "As above, so below".

I've been reading the bible a bit, and if you read it with the rules of XML in mind, it becomes pretty interesting. We see God renaming people, or telling parents what to name their children. Jesus renamed some people, and if you think of people (and rocks, stars, animals) as the "content" of the universe, then you start to get a sense for the significance of the name of every thing.

God is described as being the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end, and in light of applying attributes to content, I remember that ALL content MUST be enclosed in tags, and therefor, God would always know the beginning tags, and the end tags of... everything.

If you write the code of the universe, then you really are omnipotent. But is God the writer of the code? In John it says that in the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Isn't this saying in a poetic way that God is living, self writing code? Just like we are living, self writing content. Made in the image, so to speak.

So what is magic? It it is content writing the code.

Anyway, it's an interesting analogy.

10:28 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Michael said:

If you write the code of the universe, then you really are omnipotent. But is God the writer of the code? In John it says that in the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Isn't this saying in a poetic way that God is living, self writing code? Just like we are living, self writing content. Made in the image, so to speak.


Works for me. I think what you're saying is much the same as I was trying to get at above when I said, "There is no 'higher' intelligence. There is nobody who knows all the answers in advance. The whole universe is an act of improv, making itself up as it goes alone, one step at a time."

Self-writing code. I like that.

11:32 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One more thing I wanted to toss out. There's a particular mystical image that I love -- maybe from Plotinus, though I'm not positive.

Start by imagining a sphere with a source of light at the center, so that the inside is all evenly illuminated. That's the traditional image of God and creation.

Now imagine that there is no source of light, and yet the inside is still all evenly illuminated -- but by what?

That, I think is the nature of Michael's self-writing code.

It's also the nature of aj's void, though he has difficulties with the objection that "Nothing can come from nothing."

Remember, aj, that the void is not other that the Abyss, and the Abyss is deeper and more powerful than all existent things. It is the source of all that exists, without having existence itself.

had a certain amount to say on this matter within a more-or-less Christian framework:

Overall, Eriugena develops a Neoplatonic cosmology according to which the infinite, transcendent and ‘unknown’ God, who is beyond being and non-being, through a process of self-articulation, procession, or ‘self-creation’, proceeds from his divine ‘darkness’ or ‘non-being’ into the light of being, speaking the Word who is understood as Christ, and at the same timeless moment bringing forth the Primary Causes of all creation. These causes in turn proceed into their Created Effects and as such are creatures entirely dependent on, and will ultimately return to, their sources, which are the Causes or Ideas in God. These Causes, considered as diverse and infinite in themselves, are actually one single principle in the divine One. The whole of reality or nature, then, is involved in a dynamic process of outgoing (exitus) from and return (reditus) to the One. God is the One or the Good or the highest principle, which transcends all, and which therefore may be said to be ‘the non-being that transcends being’.

So too, in his own frame of reference, did Miyamoto Mushashi.

11:47 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh, crap. The site is messing up my html again, like it was a few weeks ago (and it's fine in the preview -- only gets messed in the final posting.)

The final part of my post, that comes out as one big link, is supposed to read:

John Scotus Eriugena had a certain amount to say on this matter within a more-or-less Christian framework:

Overall, Eriugena develops a Neoplatonic cosmology according to which the infinite, transcendent and ‘unknown’ God, who is beyond being and non-being, through a process of self-articulation, procession, or ‘self-creation’, proceeds from his divine ‘darkness’ or ‘non-being’ into the light of being, speaking the Word who is understood as Christ, and at the same timeless moment bringing forth the Primary Causes of all creation. These causes in turn proceed into their Created Effects and as such are creatures entirely dependent on, and will ultimately return to, their sources, which are the Causes or Ideas in God. These Causes, considered as diverse and infinite in themselves, are actually one single principle in the divine One. The whole of reality or nature, then, is involved in a dynamic process of outgoing (exitus) from and return (reditus) to the One. God is the One or the Good or the highest principle, which transcends all, and which therefore may be said to be ‘the non-being that transcends being’.

So too, in his own frame of reference, did Miyamoto Mushashi.

11:51 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

starroute,

I don't think I come to the same conclusions as you when I consider the "XML model of God", but it would really tedious not to mention inappropriate to lay out why, and I appreciate your comments. I'll put it online eventually.

10:32 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Alot is being said about the nature of God and the Universe. I toss in my 2 cents about the topic.

The Vatican in Rome has a vast collection of Relics and such locked away in chambers below the main passage ways that the clergy use. The Secret Archives are a well worn fact that simple searches will provide a wealth of information. Now, lets apply a little simple detective work and inductive reasoning. If there is a connection from Man to God, and visa versa, what is the Holy Church afraid of? If God is the allmighty as he is depicted, why are there representatives of his collaborating with child abusers Nazis and Land Barons?

I can't buy into Christianity when the words that are spouted in devotion don't reflect the acts of the followers. I think that a resonable person might expect that a being with the powers attributed to HIM ( you know, Miracles and all that ) would have demonstrated the modern equvalent of a House Cleaning by now.

Well, like many of mankinds creations, it would seem that God is an Ad Campaign that has run it's course and is as empty as a Coke can. Humans can wind themselves up into beliveing anything and when they do, they ascribe all kinds of 'Magical' behavior occuring. The Universe is being dissected at a dizzying pace and what was once a fantasy-like realm above our heads is now proven to be giant orbs of burning matter (stars). Soon, the truth of the Multi-Dimensional environments that surround us will be opened and we will all be signing up for holidays in these places ( provided the inhabitants there are ready to welcome us ).

2:30 p.m.  
Blogger messianicdruid said...

Dr.Theophilus said; "Now, lets apply a little simple detective work and inductive reasoning. If there is a connection from Man to God, and visa versa, what is the Holy Church afraid of? If God is the almighty as he is depicted, why are there representatives of his collaborating with child abusers Nazis and Land Barons?"

Well, inductivly, they are lawless {1John 3:4} infidels. {Matthew 7:15-20}

8:22 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

...



We place no reliance
On Virgin or Pigeon
Our method is Science
Our aim is Religion...



...



SPOON BOY
Do not try to bend the spoon. That
is impossible. Instead, only try to
realize the truth.

NEO
What truth?

SPOON BOY
That there is no spoon.

NEO
There is no spoon.

SPOON BOY
Then you will see that it is not the
spoon that bends. It is only
yourself.




http://www.rawilsonfans.com/articles/GreatBeast.htm

8:41 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

starroute:
"cosmogenesis (is) an act of self-creation" is the most profound, provocative phrase I've yet encountered on this wonderful forum.
Thank you.

10:02 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a terribly sad example of the power of words and imagery- the families of the coal miners in West Virgina were at first euphoric
and then utterly devastated as the news of the miner's fate changed.
The power of words to take people from greatest joy to worst misery.
The only tangible (intangible) element present being the imagery associated with the language.

Perhaps some people look to religion and others to mood-altering substances, hoping to find a messenger that will keep the good news coming.

Some people go through life with their fingers in their ears saying:
"I can't hear you."

5:20 p.m.  
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