Tuesday, December 13, 2005

The Lone Conmen



Two eyes took the aim behind a man's brain
But he can't be blamed:
He's only a pawn in their game - Bob Dylan


I got suckered yesterday by a logo. Nothing special about that besides the irony that the logo was No Logo, which sold me a copy of No War by Naomi Klein ("and others," though that addendum is dark blue on a black background). I didn't realize until later Klein's only contribution - and apparently without her consent - was "Baghdad Year Zero", an essay published more than a year ago in Harper's and available free online.

Besides the need to be smarter about my discretionary spending, I'm glad it also reminded me of Klein's reporting from Iraq. She's very good when describing the neoconservatives "apocalyptic glee" at the destruction of a society to accomodate their extreme makeover - "Iraq was to the neocons what Afghanistan was to the Taliban: the one place on Earth where they could force everyone to live by the most literal, unyielding interpretation of their sacred texts" - but I think she falters when framing for the big picture, as do most left critics of the war, by not having a deeper field of vision. She doesn't see behind the neoconservatives, to clusters of elite power which owe no allegiance to nation-states, and whose purpose all along has been calamity and the ruin of America.

Klein writes:

The great historical irony of the catastrophe unfolding in Iraq is that the shock-therapy reforms that were supposed to create an economic boom that would rebuild the country have instead fueled a resistance that ultimately made reconstruction impossible. Bremer’s reforms unleashed forces that the neocons neither predicted nor could hope to control, from armed insurrections inside factories to tens of thousands of unemployed young men arming themselves. These forces have transformed Year Zero in Iraq into the mirror opposite of what the neocons envisioned: not a corporate utopia but a ghoulish dystopia, where going to a simple business meeting can get you lynched, burned alive, or beheaded.


Well, yes; that particular hallucination of a Chicago School hot house on the Euphrates has been well dashed, having served it's purpose to rally Milton Friedman's infernal optimists to the Great Crusade. But like so many crusades, this one was sponsored by cynics for undisclosed ends. Iraq's kingdom of ghouls did not arise entirely by chance or surprise, and not without encouragement. Reconstruction remains impossible because the forces of occupation both inspire insurrection - that's about as far as Klein goes - and also impersonate it. (And shortly after the outrage at Basra who was found dead in the same city, a suspected suicide, but Captain Ken Masters, only the officer "responsible for the investigation of all in-theatre serious incidents.") British examples are good here, to remind us that the double game is international and Anglo-American, demonstrating a trans-national bond and common interest that goes deeper than simply bending to the will of a Donald Rumsfeld.

Iraq is viewed almost entirely as a neocon project, but the backstory to the war includes the purposeful bankrupting of America, which has weakened the state from the inside while the Iraq war has not only created more enemies, but left it more vulnerable to attack.

The neocons are the Lone Gunmen of Iraq. They're the patsies who'll eventually take the fall for its failure, which will actually mean success to the real players who've allowed them the liberty to play their hand. Like Oswald, these patsies aren't innocents, but neither should perfect blame be laid at their feet. And like Oswald, when their heads are offered to the public the public will be expected to sigh with relief that the beast has been slain and all is right again in the land.

But they're not up for the chop yet. A few more acts need to be played before they've unintentionally exhausted their use in the hastening of the collapse of American power. (Idealogues blinded by the beauty of their ideas are easily manipulated to the service of contrary ends.) The car bombing of Lebanon's Gibran Tueni and the heavy hand pointing to Syria is one suggestion of the next act, and the timetable for a nuclear Iran is another.

Prince Hassan of Jordan said on Sunday that the US had run out of goodwill in Iraq, and that "only the horror of an all-out civil war, with perhaps a million more dead, could bring an uncertain end by arms to this ongoing tragedy."

I'd say don't give them any ideas, Prince, but you're not telling them anything they don't already know.

98 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jeff,

The best political blog you've done in a long time.
Skunkboy

P.S. Merry Christmas

3:56 AM  
Anonymous steve vegas said...

It seems to be undeniably true, but I'm still vexed by the why of it. Why do they want to bankrupt America? What purpose does it serve? I wonder which version of this "destroy America" theory you subscribe to, there are several to choose from, but I've never been able to totally buy one. Have you? If you have can you point me there? Rather than pander to Fox New, I'll say Happy Holidays.

4:08 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I like Jeff's spooky-scare-the-crap-outta-ya better than his political ones...plus I don't think there is a "man behind the curtain" and if by chance there is, then our Toto will expose him.

Americans are slow but not that stupid.

We'll catch on sooner or later.

5:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Americans not that stupid?

Umm.....yeah right.

Its not just Americans though, anywhere the media can be manipulated citizens are being duped across the globe.

Frankly, I'm glad to see a post get back to the politics and finance after reading weeks of mind control, satan and other goblins.

To give some quick perpective I encourage all of you to read "Creature from Jekyll Island" by G. Edward Griffin. His book lays it out nicely with a great deal of historical perspective and research.

Too often folks forget that this global domination is really about power and control. Much power is derived from control of currency. Read Griffin's book and the man behind the current will be explained. It's not just one man, but many all serving various purposes, the chief being greed.

6:16 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous One,you don't think these fucktards would back us into a trap that we couldn"t get out of,do ya? Well from where I'm setting Merica is not that stupid,no were way past stupid.I think you would have to call it psy op'ed, One thing that must be taken care of is the moneys of the world ,it all must be the same.I know more people than I care to think about,that are one pay check away from the poor house.Disrupt the worlds base,that happens to be the money,and you could really start some shit.There plans are going a head because they know were this is all going.We fall in every trap they push us too,later.

6:58 AM  
Anonymous trachys said...

connecting "moneys of the world" and the timetable for Iran: Israeli plans for nuclear strikes seem to coincide with the opening of Iran's Euro-based oil bourse: March 2006.

7:47 AM  
Anonymous Paul said...

Why bankrupt America?

The whole purpose of the process termed 'globalisation' is to bring the benefits of the third world to the first not vice versa

8:05 AM  
Anonymous Infernal Optimist said...

Well, yes; that particular hallucination of a Chicago School hot house on the Euphrates has been well dashed, having served it's purpose to rally Milton Friedman's infernal optimists to the Great Crusade.

Hey, I'm the Infernal Optimist!

8:43 AM  
Anonymous tmb said...

As to some of the "Why" I would direct you to the writings of Peter Dale Scott for those not familiar with them: http://ingush.berkeley.edu/~pdscott/index.html

Especially his concept of "managed violence" and global "meta groups", as in "global drug meta groups" and otherwise, extremely wealthy and vicious groups that are in fact causing world history with little or no light shed on their activities and who are in fact in many respects dictating events to our supposed "powerful" leaders . . .

This introductory poem lays it out nicely as to some of the players and their meetings leading up to "terrorist" acts supporting their interests, the trillions of dollars in drug proceeds being used to corrupt the world, and the tie-in to 911 and many other ongoing atrocities (w/of course our fine CIA w/a seat on the Board of many meetings): http://lobster-magazine.co.uk/articles/liberation.htm

The full essay is not "newspaper" fifth grade mentality writing that is the level of "educated" adults in our slowly (not so slow in the last five years) rotting society, but it is worth spending some time reading and absorbing the impact of what is really being said and footnoted: http://lobster-magazine.co.uk/articles/global-drug.htm

The article is worthwhile just for the history of the arms dealer Khashoggi and his meetings with criminal groups and members of the "intelligence" community from all over the world at his "villa" and his corruption of all w/his dirty money (donations to the Carter Library etc. . .)and for good old Neil Bush popping up (when he's not on a "peace" mission w/Rev. Moon, or pretending to be a reporter from Rolling Stone to get access to Bob Marley,or bankrupting the S&L Industry, it seems he hangs out w/some others who are right there w/Moon as to their deleterious effect on the planet . . .)but it really tends to give a rather nauseous feeling as you start to fully realize how Halliburton plays out on the world stage and what that means about the man running our government who used to head that company . . . Not much of a leap to see that Mike Ruppert in Crossing The Rubicon has things about right and why . . .

8:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous One,by the way,check out Clyde Lewis .com,Conjering of the Beast,Later.

9:22 AM  
Blogger RDR said...

http://lobster-magazine.co.uk/articles/global-drug.htm

there it is

10:32 AM  
Anonymous sickofit said...

in regards to why some would want to destroy America, because the US constitution is heretical according to the catechism of the HRCC. and ever since it was written up, there's been a silent (maybe no so silent) war against it.

the sex scandals of priest and bishops a few years back simply served the purpose to make the HRCC appear weak, a tactic from Sun Tzu's Art of War translated by Jesuit priest Frather Amiot.

it's interesting to note here that the last three presidents, which have done more to destroy the US all attended the late pope's funeral.

10:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you want to know who's interests are served by the bankrupting of America, these quotes will prove instructive:

"We shall have world government whether you like it or not. What remains to be seen is if it will come via conquest or consent." -banker Paul Warburg before the U.S. Congress, 1950.

"Today the people will resist but tomorrow they will welcome U.N. troops in their home towns enforcing a new world order. All that is needed is the right crisis to get the process started." -Henry Kissinger at a Bilderberg Group meeting, 1993

This whole process of invading Iraq and Afghanistan, along with the planned wars against Iran and Syria are designed to create a Hegelian dialectic to bring about a 'new world order:'

1) Problem: rogue superpower starts throwing its weight around and acting like its former nemesis the Soviet Union

2) Reaction: the worlds remaining minor powers band together to counteract, restrain and ultimately defang the rogue superpower (militarily or economically)

3) Solution: to prevent this kind of crisis from happening again, the integration of the world's nations under the aegis of the U.N. or a replacement organization is promoted

I hate to say this folks, but WE'RE scripted to be the bad guys who need to take the fall. Otherwise these nefarious plans won't come to pass.

10:51 AM  
Anonymous Dugoboy said...

you are smart, jeff. good post.

they are indeed destroying america, be it on purpose or not, its whats happening. the fact is, the neocons are being used for nefarious ends. for the further entrenchment of people who simply like to be in control.

the neo cons, do represent rather nakedly what the illuminati are and what they are about. power, domination and creating a submissive slave state through economic ruin on a global scale.

to answer steve vegas, 2nd commenter:

why do they want to bankrupt america? because the american economy is pretty much the caboose that runs the money train in the world. now you destroy the caboose, while secretly during its destruction you take all the money you can. the process is that they are voluntarily destroying america for a much more sinister goal.

when america crashes and burns, it could lead to a world recession. also add the fact that the neo cons want to invade iran or syria. world war 3 is brewing. now you look on a global political scale. if america has no credibility and is despised, where does the world look to for leadership and guidence? especially after a terrible 3rd world war? we clamor for peace.

the UN. and that has been the plan since it was created 60 years ago.

and guess who's gonna run that pretty boat show after Annan retires?

the most beloved american of all.

11:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Walter Cronkite?

Some of us are, indeed, stupid. We need to have things plainly stated and spelled out.

11:47 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The quiet wisdom of the cattle"

http://homepage.mac.com/kaaawa/Sky/iMovieTheater83.html

11:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Loretta Lynn?

11:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Help me here....

Captain Kangaroo?

11:51 AM  
Blogger Pete said...

The obsession with the UN is ludicrous. Bankrupting America will be a boon to the mercenaries, the corporadoes, and the bond traders, all of whom already have a friend in the WTO/WB/IMF. The UN is the liberal happy face supplanted onto de facto power structures, and the WTO already represents the post-national ambitions of the global ruling class. so yes, the goal may be Global Corporate Feudalism, a new dark ages for the masses, but the UN is cloaking what is in plain sight, serving as a bogeyman to split the libertarians and Christians from students and workers. As dark and forboding as this scenario is, i realized that the issue of petrodollars will remain central for the next several years; it is the mere threat of US bankruptcy that binds the domestic populace to using hard power to enforce the Dollar Wall Street Regime. It is only the global seigniorage afforded by petrodollars that sustains US credit, and it is the need to mainten this monetary regime that ensures acceptance of space weapons, BARDA, RFID's, etc., etc... Once these programs have yielded fruit, then it may be decided to pull the plug on the Constitution once and for all.

11:52 AM  
Blogger spiderleaf said...

I'm thinking he/she meant the Big Dog... Bill Clinton.

11:57 AM  
Anonymous Dugoboy said...

oh ya, one more thing. i remember when i was young in elementary school and high school. believing in the UN, loving it for its supposed humanitarian and peaceful efforts. but also being programmed to believe that the UN must and will become the world government. its always been subliminal. whenever the UN is mentioned or whatever, its like in the back of your mind you hear a whisper 'it will be the world government'. everytime. like theres no stopping it.

..a rigorous intuition...this is what 'they' try to steal from you. to disabuse us of the notion that i or any of you matter. they try to rob us of a strong intuitive nature, that when you feel something is off or just sounds a bit too strange, your probably right.

if they cant deny you your innate intuition, they try to make you feel worthless, that your life is not worth saving.

if they cant deny your worth, they try to deny you to understand what the course of action is to counter act what they do. it turns into mind warfare.

and if you become a mind warrior, they try to kill you.

11:58 AM  
Anonymous Dugoboy said...

yes, the big dog.

in response to pete:

oh, absolutely. i agree the UN is just the happy liberal face. all the UN will become is the face of the new world government. a smiley face.

: )

but in reality it disguises what is in plain sight. creating division where there is none. the resulting paradox will be that in the end it'll turn around on it self as the false dichotomy is further exposed.

what it will become, or is currently becomoming is they are trying to get the military order and police in place, so that when that happens, they can keep it controlled. this is what i predict will happen. people who say 'oh, we'll catch on, we arn't that stupid' and i mean 'we' as in all humans not just americans. but yes, we will catch on. there will be a time when the propaganda no longer works.

but when this finally happens, they will has disarmed us and bankrupted us so that we will have no power to stop it.

our only choice is to stop the plan from marching forward.

we are one 'terrorist' attack away from tanks rolling down the streets and nightly curfews and guns pointed at your face.

the only way to fight them is tell everyone you know what is happening. and yes everything is designed that if u tell people this stuff, the immediate response is denial.

you just have to break through it.

12:21 PM  
Anonymous Dugoboy said...

this theory about telling everyone you know has great power.

imagine 3 or 4 months from now if the mainstream media started talking about 'the truth movement' and how they had finally gotten a senate hearing about 'a certain secretive group of elites' and its treasonous acts upon america.

imagine bush, cheney and all the main players in the bush administration being indicted on all the dirty shit they did. rigging florida and ohio. blowing the wtc up. manufacturing intelligence to attack iraq. blowing the levees in new orleans.

hahhaha. we can dream eh?

12:30 PM  
Anonymous Dugoboy said...

a song:

Band: A Perfect Circle Song: Pet

"Pet"

Don't fret precious I'm here, step away from the window
Go back to sleep

Lay your head down child
I won't let the boogeyman come

Counting bodies like sheep
To the rhythm of the war drums

Pay no mind to the rabble
Pay no mind to the rabble

Head down, go to sleep
To the rhythm of the war drums

Pay no mind what other voices say
They don't care about you, like I do, like I do
Safe from pain and truth and choice and other poison devils,
See, they don't give a fuck about you, like I do.

Just stay with me, safe and ignorant,
Go back to sleep
Go back to sleep

Lay your head down child
I won't let the boogeyman come
Count the bodies like sheep
To the rhythm of the war drums

Pay no mind to the rabble
Pay no mind to the rabble

Head down, go to sleep to the rhythm of the war drums

I'll be the one to protect you from
Your enemies and all your demons

I'll be the one to protect you from
A will to survive and a voice of reason

I'll be the one to protect you from
Your enemies and your choices son
They're one in the same
I must isolate you
Isolate and save you from yourself

Swayin to the rhythm of the new world order and
Count the bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums

The boogeymen are coming
The boogeymen are coming

Keep your head down, go to sleep, to the rhythm of a war drums

Stay with me
Safe and ignorant
Just stay with me
Hold you and protect you from the other ones
The evil ones
Don't love you son,
Go back to sleep

12:46 PM  
Blogger messianicdruid said...

Albert Pike’s 1871 letter to Mazzini proposed three world wars needed to accomplish their purposes:

“The First World War must be brought about in order to permit the Illuminati to overthrow the power of the Czars in Russia and of making that country a fortress of atheistic Communism. The divergences caused by the "agentur" (agents) of the Illuminati between the British and Germanic Empires will be used to foment this war. At the end of the war, Communism will be built and used in order to destroy the other governments and in order to weaken the religions.”

“The Second World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences between the Fascists and the political Zionists. This war must be brought about so that Nazism is destroyed and that the political Zionism be strong enough to institute a sovereign state of Israel in Palestine. During the Second World War, International Communism must become strong enough in order to balance Christendom, which would be then restrained and held in check until the time when we would need it for the final social cataclysm.”

“The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction…will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time.”

The frog of Freemasonry is Witchcraft (Luciferianism). The frog of Judaism and evangelical Christianity is militant Zionism. Islam’s frog is militant Islam fighting Zionists and Christians. Few sincere followers of these frogs know that they are being used for a sinister purpose and will ultimately be betrayed by their unknown leaders.

On the other hand, these Luciferians are also blinded by their own pride and do not realize that the God of Heaven is using them to destroy all of man’s religious systems on earth to prepare the way for the Kingdom of God. That peaceable Kingdom will not be ruled by violent men.

www.gods-kingdom.org/FFI/2005/February2005.htm

12:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry Messianicdruid, but that alleged Pike letter is so bogus, reading it makes my teeth itch.

In 1871, Zionism, Fascism and Nazism didn't even exist.

1:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Best article on the murder of John Lennon as part of the war plans of these same people who are destroying the U.S.:

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_300.shtml

3:15 PM  
Anonymous ce399 said...

"only the horror of an all-out civil war, with perhaps a million more dead, could bring an uncertain end by arms to this ongoing tragedy."

A few articles that might be of interest:

Inside Iran's Secret War For Iraq

---

Sharon may believe that he will be the big winner of such an American move, though history may show that he brought a historical disaster on us. He may succeed in exploiting the ensuing anarchy in order to drive the Palestinians out of the country. But within a few years Israel could find itself surrounded by a new Middle East - and not the one Shimon Peres is driveling on about. A region full of hatred, dreaming of revenge, driven by religious and nationalist fanaticism. And in the end, the Americans will go home. We will be left here alone.

War Now !

And in the end, the Americans will go home. We will be left here alone.

And therein lies the rub.

---

Here's a "spooky" one:

American troops launch 'Exorcist' tour at ancient temple

4:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

First, my handle is "jargon." Lost my password. I hope the following is not just jargon to everybody.

I would like to weigh in with a few comments. I fail to understand the conspiracy theorist's fear and scapegoating of the UN. From what I have heard, it is, as was implied by anonymous and dugoboy, the UN is simply a large burgeoning bureacracy with some well-intentioned leaders who are unable to control the corruption of the functionaries and underlings within the organization. These functionaries are exemplified by those involved in the Oil-for-Food scandal, the one of African sex trade among peacekeepers and workers there, the UN delegates in New York who went on a kleptomania spree when the services workers went on strike in New York at the headquarters, etc. These things indicate that the organization is incapable of policing itself, much less any region of the world of significant size or disorder.

Further, the UN, when they can muster a peacekeeping force under their own auspices, are only lightly armed and cannot stand up to intense resistance or fighting. The UN is more "effective" when national militaries (under US command of course, since long ago the US made it clear it would only put our forces under a commander of our own nationality) fight alongside UN-assigned forces or carry out the actual operations under UN resolutions.

What I want to address is that the UN's authority is to member nations are constituents. In the US, the president signs treaties with "advice and consent" of the senate. International precedent means that the US is subjected to international law only after a treaty has been ratified by Congress and then signed by the president. While not strictly democratic, the precedent in international law is very strong. Whenever a nation acts internationally, the precedent of international law means that treaties are the strongest force and justification for those acts. In the United States, it is possible that an international treaty can be used to circumvent US constitutional law in some limited cases, but it is pushing the argument to construe any of this as providing legal precedent for foreign military personel not under US command to enter the United States.

I cannot recall the source right now, but I am under the belief that it is illegal for any foreign military forces to be active inside the United States. Obviously this does not apply to officer exchanges and such.

Even given an "invitation" following a catastrophe, the international precedent would cause lawyers and many citizens extreme distress. My conclusion is that groups making claims about the UN scheming for a world government and the US inviting them in for damage control are overblown and overrated. Even were this to happen, I am aware of no authority for the UN to actually institute laws overruling the Constitution and other laws of the United States at either the federal or the state level.

Not to blow my own horn, of course. I have only had two international law and a couple constitutional law courses and I am not a top law student.

If you google some phrases relating to the ideas above, I think you will find sources making similar statements. Sorry I can't provide formal sources--this is one fast little essay.

By the way, Mr. Wells, is that title a reference to the short-lived Lone Gunmen TV series? I just finished watching the whole thing.

5:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Damn, should have read that over for typos before hitting "post." I'm not as dumb as I sound, really.

5:04 PM  
Anonymous Iroquois said...

It must've been serendipity, I tried to write a post saying much the same thing myself last night for the discussion board, but just couldn't get the words strung together right before bedtime. Jeff does it so much better any way. But, for the sake of seconding his thoughts, I'll try again...

When the Iraq war was first underway, I was a devout follower of all the libertarian and paleo-conservative critiques of Bush foreign policy at the time that decried the neo-conservative cabal as radical liberal idealists that had wrested control of our government and were now on a Trotskyist campaign to remake the world by force to conform to their own particular utopian fantasy.

But then, all at once, came the siege of Falluja. Al-Sadrd was accused of murder. His paper was closed in Baghdad and top-lieutenants (never him and I noted the militarist jargon in the propaganda) were arrested. The holy city of Najaf was assualted. And, the coup-de-grace, the tortue photos from Abu Graibh were made public. Within a matter of days, the stated neo-con dream for Iraq went from extremely unlikely to absolutely impossible. If there were any true believers among them, they had been as duped as I was.

Then what had to be the most blatant false-flag psy-op, the Nick Berg beheading video, was released and became the top story on all the News shows just in time to contain public backlash for the revealed atrocities, and I fell headfirst down the rabbit hole.

6:23 PM  
Anonymous Michael said...

Iroquois said: "Then what had to be the most blatant false-flag psy-op, the Nick Berg beheading video, was released and became the top story on all the News shows just in time to contain public backlash for the revealed atrocities, and I fell headfirst down the rabbit hole."

I know what ya mean. Peak Oil was what did it for me. I was very into the Peak Oil theory for a while, very worried about the ramifications of a global energy crisis. Lots of people are. And it seemed really obvious that oil was the real reason for the war. But it also seems obvious that if a government was that concerned about oil, it wouldn't create a demand for SUV's (Ahnold's first civilian HumVee) and give a tax break to any vehicle over 6000 lbs. If a resource is scarce, you CONSERVE it, you don't use it up even faster.

Peak Oil is very real, but it is also very contrived by the PTB, just like the war of the Christian Zionists vs. the Muslims. The destruction of America, Islam, Christianity, and indeed, perhaps even Industrial civilization, is not to destroy them just because, but to bring about the New World Order. Everyone on this blog knows that. It will come about. They have all the money, all the media, all the bombs and all the power. Wishful thinking or mystical 100 monkey consciousness raising is NOT going to work.

And what IS the NWO? It won't be the horrible police state that everyone envisions. It will be the answer to everyone's fervent prayers, a miraculous save, the blossoming of a New Age. At first...

7:04 PM  
Anonymous Kris Millegan said...

End Game Politics -- Rollerball?

Now, I don't know, but here are some thoughts:.

Simply said, the object of the secret societies is a new world order. How? Here may be one way.

These folks may be looking to disgust enough of us here and 'round the world of war and the United States. (Maybe even "Democracy.") ... and then proffer a "peace pill" from ... China.

The secret societies are the major black-market traffickers, making money and creating structure in both the Orient and Occident.

As "they" are "solidifying" their presence here so have they been solidifying their presence in China.

Psst! ... follow the money.

And China's families are primarily one-child units. The sociological ramifications are immense.

It makes "control" so much easier.

Do you remember the movie Rollerball? The one with James Caan.

Here are some of the movie's advertising tag-lines:

In the not-too-distant future, wars will no longer exist...

This movie will haunt your future ... because it's almost here!

The next war will not be fought - it will be played.

In the future there will be no war. There will only be Rollerball.

In the not-too-distant future, wars will no longer exist. But there will be Rollerball

In Rollerball, corporations rule the world. A world where elites and their "friends" may live a privileged lifestyle of their choosing, while the rest are kept within strict boundaries and enthralled by sex and violence, ... bondage. Hmm, ... gee, that sounds familiar ...


The road to one future is being paved by Wal-Mart.


Here may be some groundwork being laid down for a plutocratic synarchical scenario of the secret societies "ruling" through the Chinese. This presentation is by Fareed Zakaria, member of the secret society Order of Scroll & Key. the Editor of Newsweek International, has a show on PBS called Foreign Exchange, appears regularly on ABC's This Week and was managing editor of the Council on Foreign Relations' magazine Foreign Affairs from 1992 to 2000.

From: http://foreignexchange.tv/?q=node/405&PHPSESSID=84085901c8446a9c38b5699921dc80ae

or you may view the interview at: http://foreignexchange.tv/?q=node/419

IN DEPTH: Wu Jianmin

Fareed Zakaria: As China grows economically, some in the United States have begun talking about a strategic rivalry between China and the US. At a recent conference in Singapore, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld accused China of masking its military build-up and threatening Asian security by the positioning of hundreds of missile facing Taiwan.
Chinese Diplomats and its ruling elites are very cautious about discussing these kinds of issues on the record. But when I was in China recently I was able to sit down with one of its senior most members of the foreign service--Ambassador Wu Jianmin, and do just that.
* * *
Fareed Zakaria: President Wu, when we were talking privately you mentioned to me that you saw the cover of Newsweek which says China’s Century or the Chinese Century and you looked at it and you said I get frightened when I see something like that. What did you mean?

Jianmin: Yes; in the first I asked my--myself what does it mean--China Century? When people say this what does it mean…? China is going to dominate; no, the Chinese are not interested in domination. In the [Inaudible] the important part of [Dong Xiaoping’s] legacy for--for Chinese is don’t--do not seek hegemony. Do not seek Dong(nation) is first point. Second, you mean China would be the--the leading country in the world? Yes; China is growing very rapidly but last year our GDPs were only 1.6 trillion US dollars. GDPs of the US is eight times China’s. Then in terms of the per capita GDP, China is very low. I think US per capita GDPs is 30 or 40 times China. We have a long way to go. Then you know we have the Chinese saying which goes like--like this--When you reach top you feel lonely and cold. [Laughs] We Chinese, we like to share. [Laughs]

Fareed Zakaria: And this is of course part of what has been called China’s Peaceful Rise Doctrine?

Jianmin: Right.

Fareed Zakaria: But how is it possible for a country this big to grow as fast as it is, to have the kind of size that--that you have, the impact on the global economy and for them not to be ripple effects? I mean you’re now the second or third largest consumer of almost every commodity in the world--oil, natural gas. Isn’t this going to shake things up?

Jianmin: Yes; we are going to shake things--true, but there are two ways to--to do it. One is--our first is by force; second in a peaceful way. We Chinese, we like to take it the second--the second approach. Why? For two reasons; first the world is changing. Fifty-four--fifty-five years ago when things went wrong in your country, we Chinese were happy because we--we fought each other in Korea. Thirty years ago, whatever happened to--to US economy it did not have any impact on China. But today, if things go wrong, yeah I mean if your economy is in bad shape, we are sorry about that. If things are going well in your country we are happy about that because things are going well that may have good impact on China. Things are changing; there’s a growing inter-dependence between China and US.

Fareed Zakaria: So what do you say to those Americans who worry? They say China has so many of our Treasury Bills. Our debt is owned in large measure by Asian countries and China is one of the largest holders of US Government Treasuries. Is there a danger that China will use that in some way as leverage in some geo-political issue?

Jianmin: I don’t think so; you see we bought a lot of it--T-Bonds of your country because it’s a way to keep our foreign currency reserves. It’s--I think it works both ways; it’s good for--for China. It’s good for--for US. China will not use it as a leverage against the US. You know there’s such inter-dependence between US and China; we’ve got to cooperate and work together. My second part is look at the Chinese history. From Century One to Century Fifteen, China was a leading nation in the world. We had all--I mean technological, scientific assets; the Chinese did not use that to dominate the world. Even less today, you see they say peace is part of the Chinese culture. Confucius said 2,500 years ago [Laughs] peace is something most precious; I think Chinese will stick to that tradition.

Fareed Zakaria: Let me ask you about Taiwan.

Jianmin: Yes.

Fareed Zakaria: Many Americans worry that there will be a real conflict between China and the United States over Taiwan. Do you believe that there’s a real danger of--of war, of China using military force to reunify the Mainland with Taiwan?

Jianmin: You know China will use the force as a last resort. No country in the world tolerates the separation of the part--their territory from the mother land. Taiwan is part of China, you know. Then in Taiwan, there’s some forces, anti--I mean secessionist forces; they are working. They like to separate Taiwan from China; of course we will not tolerate this.

Fareed Zakaria: But the reality is that Taiwan exists as an independent entity right now.

Jianmin: Not as independent entity; you know Taiwan exists--true. Taiwan, we have--they have a government, they have a people, they have territory but they don’t have international recognition. [Laughs] The whole international community recognized them with China. You see this is a true--but the secessionists, they like to separate Taiwan from China. They like to--want to cross the red line. So we told [Inaudible], please do respect the three joint communications between China and the US. Provided that--the other side, they do not cross the red line, China will not use force. We use force as a last resort.

Fareed Zakaria: So how will this work itself out? What--what do you think--what do you look forward 10, 15, 20 years…

Jianmin: Yes.

Fareed Zakaria: … what will happen?
Jianmin: Ten or fifteen years I hope that we can achieve a peaceful solution [Laughs], peaceful reunification of the mother land.

Fareed Zakaria: Which would happen with the consent of the Taiwanese people?

Jianmin: I believe so. I believe so, because you see we’re not achieving it without their--their consent. One country--two systems; we’re--we’re working in that way. It works in Hong Kong and [Inaudible]. You see we achieve that in that way.

Fareed Zakaria: On North Korea…

Jianmin: Yes.

Fareed Zakaria: Many Americans feel that China should be more helpful, that China needs to recognize now that it is a real global power or at least a regional power, that the proliferation of nuclear weapons is not in its interest and it should be using leverage against North Korea because after all it is the only country that has only leverage.

Jianmin: The food, oil, energy supply basically is humanitarian. DPRK is China’s next door neighbor. Should we use--cut their food supply, oil supply it would bring about a humanitarian disaster. I think it’s not a viable solution. You see a humanitarian disaster next door; it’s outrageous. In terms of the human rights we shouldn’t--we shouldn’t do that. It doesn’t mean that China did not get the message across. Even President [Inaudible] said very--in a very clear cut way to the--to the DPRK, please come back to six-party talks. We think that Korean [peninsula] should be nuclear free; that will--that will be in the best interest of your [security]. You think that you--through that--going nuclear will assure your [security]; it’s not true.

Fareed Zakaria: Do you think it will work without the--the threat of some kind of pressure?
Jianmin: I think you know we need some patience. The only other alternative is using force. Look at Iraq; it didn’t work. So I think the--the peaceful solution--it may take some time. We’ve got to understand it because the mistrust between the US and the DPRK is so deep. Theoretically speaking you are still at war with the DPRK. There’s no peace treaty between the US and the DPRK. You know more than 50 years--a lot of hatred, a lot of resentment, a lot of mistrust; we need time to--to get it over.

Fareed Zakaria: Ambassador, well we thank you. You--you represent the great tradition of Chinese diplomacy when you talk about patience. There is that famous story of Kissinger and [Chou En-Lai] talking and Kissinger asks [Chou En-Lai], what do you think of the French Revolution? And [Chou En-Lai] said to him, it’s too soon to tell.

Jianmin: [Laughs]

Fareed Zakaria: Thank you very much.

Jianmin: Thank you.

[Music]
China's Might
China's economic output is $1.6 trillion.
It's expected to triple over the next 15 years, overtaking Japan in 2015 and the U.S. by 2039.
Source: Newsweek

6/30/05
======


Onward to the utmost of futures.
Peace,
Om
K

7:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

7:25 PM  
Anonymous Iroquois said...

Michael,

That's my view on Peak Oil as well. My general theory is that there is still factional competition within the PTB as differnt groups attempt to impose their particular design for the NWO and jockey for their respective positions within its ultimate hierarchy. Peak Oil is the end game. As 1st prize goes to whomever controls the most oil post Peak, there's a strong incentive for the team with the best advantage to accelerate the pace. The people of the US, as the citizens of the nation most dependent on oil, are doomed regardless. So, there's little lost (to Them) in sacrificing us to get into that position.

As for what the NWO will look like when it gets here, I can't see that far ahead myself. But I can say, if UN troops assemble on American soil, it could not happen until long after the US citizenry are completely defeated by other means.

8:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's important to understand that national boundaries are no longer that important to the elites. I began to realise that America was being run into the ground a couple of years ago - shortly after I realised about peak oil. There is little future for the poor or middle classes and the elites know this. That's why 'demand destruction' thru economics (and later manmade diseases) has become the elites major response to PO. When the property bubble pops in the US there will never be a come back to previous levels of prosperity - it will be completely and permanently finished. It is the best way to preserve what's left for the rich.

9:23 PM  
Anonymous Kris Millegan said...

F*ck Rock Oil (petroleum)

Peak Oil is BS, control mechanism.

It was an actual member of Skull & Bones that "discovered" gasoline from rock oil and then the secret societal forces proceeded to "design" an economy and world around rock oil. Just like DeBeers syndicate did with diamonds.

Again, f*ck rock oil and their whole economic schmear and turn to plant based biomass, plant oil and other ways of energy generation. Especially local source generation. We are only organized around petrol because of the folks doing the organizing.

MHO.

Peace,
K

9:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This from "Jadoo" by John Keel
(1954):


The track straightened out in the last few miles and Sayed was able to bear down on the accelerator. Baghdad was now close ahead in the darkness. We were both exhausted and short-tempered.

Sailing ahead through the night, our goal almost within reach, we suddenly heard a noise like one of the tires blowing. Then BANG, another one. I looked back and saw a soldier standing in the middle of the road shooting at us! We had missed his checkpoint.
Sayed stopped and the soldier ran up, his rifle poised, to give us a long-winded lecture for overlooking his all-important position, and to extract his booty for "services". We paid for the wasted bullets, thanked him for his bad aim, and wearily continued.

A few minutes later a foul smell began seeping into the car. It reminded me of the mummy maker's basement in Cairo.
"What's that stink?" I asked.
"Stink? I don't smell anything." Sayed said, inhaling deeply.
But there was definitely an evil smell in the air. It got worse.
"You sure?" I sniffed. "Is there a glue factory around here?"
Sayed took another whiff.
"Oh that!" he laughed. "That's Baghdad!"
We were there.

It was the Tigris I'd smelled, wide and thick with mud and sewage. It has often flowed red with blood from the countless wars fought in the city during the past two thousand years. They call it "The City of Peace"...

10:32 PM  
Anonymous Tronicus said...

Jeff:
a very brave post.
Jeff you have done a superb job of showing us a very broad-spectrum view of what is going on. When they black the info sites out I am sure gonna miss you. And may the Lord be with you and your family through whatever comes. I want to express my appreciation for how you have augmented and filled in my awareness in so many ways. I am part of the America that is already bankrupt, so I am afraid this is the most I can do right now to express my thanks.

I don't think there is much time left. I think we all need to stop obsessing on the small stuff, and petty quibbles.

May we humble yourselves and seek God's forgiveness. Ultimately, only God can clean up this mess. He has promised to do just that. But first there will be yet more deceiving false messiahs. Finally the rightful heir, the true Son of God will come to reign. It is better to have faith than to despair.
(Matthew ch. 24) http://kingjbible.com/matthew/24.htm

10:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah baby keep this MOJO flowing! What a bunch of great comments. I wish I had more time to keep up and read. I am discovering that there really is a large group of tuned-in intelligent people out there. The Sheeple are everywhere, but by doing a big of digging on the 'Net its easy to see where thinking people congregate.

Yes, the NWO is coming and we'll be left with not much but a pot to piss in. Don't EVER underestimate the capability for the PTB to manipulate the media. I work in the MSM and know this for a fact. Most of the public have no clue how easily lead the media is.

For those who don't understand why we predict the UN will be part of the enslavement, well you need to read more! Spend some time reading books on history that challenge "common sense" or history as its taught in K-12. Read that Creature from Jekyll Island book. I was duped like many of you admit. I supported the Iraq war. I thought we needed to show them who was the boss, kick some ass. I thought al qaeda was the evil group portrayed. I was WRONG.

If you are visiting this site you know you have doubts. Don't take our word for it. Do some reading. Always question motives and look who gains after "terrorist" attacks. Who gains when the price of gold reaches 20 year highs? Who gains when the Fed gov't goes into massive debt?

FOLLOW THE FRICKING MONEY!

Its about control, controlling us. Money is one of the means to their end.

Disease (manufactured at USAMRID) is another.

Civil discord is another.

Ever notice how Rush Limbaugh is so effective at pitting Democrat against Republican? Its a distraction! Watch CSPAN, they are pretty good at it too. My Mom pointed that out to me over Thanksgiving holiday. I was so damn happy that she realized the same thing.

Somebody else said it, we will welcome the NWO as our saving grace. It is the prefered method of control as it less messy:

Co-opt.

So many of us will be co-oped without even knowing. Or they'll have you by the balls via your mortage, bills, job, blackmail etc...

Others will join willingly, ie. the media. Hey, they just wanna sell papers, right?

I say keep this thread alive. People need to wake the fuck up about what is happening all around us.

10:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kris: PO is not BS. The reason petrol is so big in the world is that it provides enormous amounts of energy per volume at a tiny cost. Biofuels may help locally but will not do anything much on a global scale. In Malaysia 90% of deforestation in the last 20 years has been caused by growing palms for biofuel. IE, it's not that good for the environment. The human race has practically run out of arable land so fairly soon it's going to be food or fuel time.

10:47 PM  
Anonymous sandhills said...

Jeff,

Could you consider a book of your blog posts? Some of them are rather long and I can't read very well off a screen. Maybe you could self-publish it from your site, something somewhat casual. What do you think?

I'd get it 'cause I really dig what you put forth. Plus, you've got some pretty hip readers, man. I must say.

11:38 PM  
Anonymous Kris Millegan said...

Malthusian propaganda.

The world is not running on empty,

You are buying in to a control system.

The reality of the situation is that technology, history and our natural institutions are being suppressed and subverted by elite deviants.

MHO

Peace,
Om
K

12:21 AM  
Anonymous starroute said...

A thought crossed my mind earlier today that may be offer some hope. I remembered being taught in school that, despite what most people think, the French Revolution didn't happen because the peasants were oppressed. It happened because the middle class was seeing its gains of the previous hundred years slipping away.

France had gotten its treasury depleted in a big way by intervening in the American Revolution, which it saw as an easy way of getting back at the British, who had clobbered them in the 7 Years War. The getting back part went just fine, but France took a major economic hit. That was followed by a string of bad harvests in the 1780's, which left the country seriously hurting.

The peasants were prepared to just tighten their belts and starve gracefully, the way peasants always do. But the rising middle class, which was now getting hit with increased taxes on one side and economic hard times on the other, wasn't about to take it. They rose up and the dance was on.

Ruinous wars, natural disasters, economic hard times, and an increasing tax burden are the recipe for revolution. Our present government knows this and has done everything it can to ward off the scenario. Low interest rates (which fuel the housing boom which maintains middle class purchasing power) and a mixture of borrowing from abroad and cutting services to the poor have been the chosen methods.

But the Fed has been raising interest rates hand over fist since last spring, the government has run out of ways to screw the poor, and it won't be very long before the middle class finds itself squeezed from both top (increased taxes) and bottom (decreased purchasing power.)

What freaks the middle class -- any middle class -- the most isn't so much an economic pinch here and there as it is the fear of losing their status entirely and falling back into the lumpenproletariat. And guess what? That's already happening. Kids fresh out of college are finding it hard to come up with the white collar jobs they were promised their decrees would secure them. They're unemployed or underemployed. And wow, but aren't the over-educated and under-paid young another tradition part of the formula for revolution?

We might also take note of the ruling the other day -- was it by the Supreme Court? -- that a disabled man could have his Social Security payments docked to cover 20 year old student loans. That's got to make a generation already burdened with unrepayable debt feel *real* happy.

And, oh yes, there was another recent story, about how 87-year-olds in the mountains of Tennessee are being hauled off to jail, complete with their oxygen tanks, on charges of selling a few spare Oxycontins in order to buy food. I don't know what particular formula for revolution that fits into, but it's got to be fueling the outrage.

Americans have been soft and pampered -- that's true. But there's nothing that squeals quite as loud as a pig who's suddenly had his slop taken away from him. The poor have already lost any cushion they ever had. But when the squeeze hits the middle class, watch out for your heinie.

12:37 AM  
Blogger RDR said...

Denuding forests of palm trees rather than cultivating renewable hemp, for biofuel.

Pumping the rivers feeding the Aral Sea dry to grow cotton instead of hemp, which requires 1/3 the water. And the Aral Sea is dying, and the minerals concentrating in what remains of it's deprived reservoir have converted a healthy, diverse ecosystem into a toxic sump.

And hemp is still by and large globally anathema, as a major agricultural crop.

Anything to "stop drugs"; i.e. marijuana, recently found to be one of the world's most potent sources of antioxidants http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_arc98/7_11_98/fob2.htm

http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/899/1/274

12:48 AM  
Anonymous santa said...

Just a reminder here. Please remember to find external corroboration for any quotes or facts you read in these comments before you repeat them to others. It is too easy for someone to post crap here and cause a lot of confusion. For instance one or two of the quotes in today's batch of comments are highly improbable to say the least.

In particular, the Albert Pike quote is full of anachronisms and is therefore plainly nonsense. That it also refers to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion suggests to me that it is deliberate mischief-making, another attempt to lure "conspiracy theorists" into associating themselves with crude anti-semitism, thereby discrediting themselves.

1:16 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"When they black the info sites out I am sure gonna miss you."

would everyone just calm the fuck down

2:34 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Regarding "When they black the info sites out I am sure gonna miss you."

(personally I'm copying many entire web sites and putting them on hard drive and DVD's to ensure I don't run out of reading material, and hope others are doing the same).

Anyway the issue (whether you agree with my following Apollo example or not) is censorship.

About a year ago I did some Google searches on Apollo Moon hoax and got lots of links for great sites that showed me many more problems with the Apollo program than my brain could handle.

I repeated the search a couple of days ago and was surprised to get nothing but sites dedicated to debunking Apollo "conspiracy theories", many of them at first looking like Apollo hoax sites. What the heck?

I checked out a few and was amused at finding some that effectively "debunked" key hoax assertions (that were never made! to my knowledge and I've read all or most of them).

I then thought, man I'm amazed how so many people feel so strongly about this issue, that we did land on the Moon, that they go to the trouble of setting up so many high quality web sites to make that point, so many that I can hardly find any at all that argue for the hoax anymore...

I scanned through 5 pages of Google search results at 100 results per page! (I gave up and finally resorted to through some old links that I hoped would reference other links, and luckily this approach worked.)

I then wondered if this was a censorship initiative, why priority was given to the Moon landings hoax over the 911 hoax, seems covering up the recent 911 hoax is more pressing than an old NASA space program...

Or is it that they want to launch a lucrative new Moon and/or Mars landing program soon and don't want any bad publicity finding it's way into the budget process? I really don't know.

I also wonder how many webmasters are on the government payroll?

4:50 AM  
Anonymous trachys said...

starroute: a good classical marxist reading - but! I AM SPARTACUS.

(even if I didn't really survive that last battle to be around to make a moving speech, to kill my best friend in an act of mercy, and to see from my perch my newborn son escaping to freedom ...

6:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

On the topic of the alledged fake Apollo landings I share your view of what's happened on the web. Half the hits on Google show the joke Clangers on the moon page. I don't know if this is orchestrated or simply reflecting societies views.

IMO, some of the photos are fake and the footage of walking on the moon that I have seen seems implausible. It's not proof, but I have my suspicions. The US government had very strong motives to do it and everyone at the time was caught up in a technological high that made it easy to believe that it was possible. From an engineering p-o-v the progress of the Apollo program seems unlikely too.

There are also quite a few strange deaths associated with pilots that were trained to go to the moon who never went for one reason or another. Kubrick's widow has spoken about work her husband did for NASA during 68 and 69. Who knows?

8:36 AM  
Anonymous starroute said...

trachys -

You clearly know more about Marxism than I do, because in my half-assed way I assumed that Marxism is all about workers-of-the-world-unite and that from the Marxist point of view the bourgeoisie is the enemy.

I thought I was making a sociological observation that you can kick the poor when they're down and (except for the occasional riot where they mainly burn their own homes and businesses) they'll pretty much take it -- but threaten to deprive the middle class of their perks and they go ballistic.

So bring me up to speed, if you will, on where Marx said that unemployed college graduates were the real engine of revolution.

(I may sound snarkier than I mean to be here. I'm genuinely curious.)

9:23 AM  
Anonymous TooMuchStrangeness said...

Since I've only been coming by the blog for about the last month or so, this has been my first chance to really read some of the "political" side of the blog - even though it was the "high weirdness" that pulled me in. Great stuff, great comments!

Speaking of the "high weirdness" and Google . . . I came by your site from Google - searching for SRA. Interestingly enough, you were not the first link to come up on my search . . . in fact I think I had to go through about 25 pages of google before I started to find pages that were not "debunking" SRA, but actually talking seriously about the phenomenon. Google IMHO sold it's soul when it went publicly traded - founders became billionairs, but that was the deal with the devil . . . no more easy searches and links to info on the web that might call into question the reality that the PTB wish fro us to have. Hmmmm . . .

I also noticed "Peak Oil" brought up - man, I tell you nothing has served to divide the conspiracy community lately as much as "Peak Oil" which tends to make me think that the entire area has been manipulated with disinformation for the real purpose of trying to place division within our small and sometimes uneasy community. It makes me think about all the hell that Mike Ruppert caught over this issue. Here's a guy who painstakingly puts together numerous pieces of the 9-11 puzzle, implicating Bush, Cheney, et al., and he later gets called a CIA plant because he's taken the "Peak Oil" position. Come on people, we have to cut each other some slack. Wether "Peak Oil" is real or not, wether oil is really "abiotic" or not and all the silly arguments that go between both sides are really just a bunch of bullshit, because if it's real or not does matter - it's still the paradigm of the endgame. Wether you believe in peak oil or not; wether you rant and rave about "hemp;" Tesla, cold fusion, 150 MPG catalytic converters, and every other suppressed energy technology; none of it matters because the "Peak Oil" scheme is the way it has been decided this part of the decending choas will be played out - at the end of the day, nothing we say changes the price of a barrel of oil. Prepare for "Peak Oil" like it's real and you be in better shape than not.

Peace

10:03 AM  
Anonymous Baron said...

Jeff said:

She doesn't see behind the neoconservatives, to clusters of elite power which owe no allegiance to nation-states, and whose purpose all along has been calamity and the ruin of America.

In this quote, you mention no allegience to nation-states. In all actuality, no one owes allegiance to any nation-state. These people, I agree, are not doing anything in the interest of anyone but themselves and their cabal.

It is when everyone else, and many of the people here are on the right track, do not hold allegience to any nation-state and create their own "cabal" of like-minded individuals who understand that being human entails doing no harm and letting human's be themselves.

Once everyone realizes they are born free and only allow themselves to fall under the sway of the "government" or a "nation-state" by way of coercion, violence or the threat fo violence.

Most of the time, threat of violence is all they have.

Anyway, I ramble. Just remember you are inherently free regardless of what any pieces of paper say.

10:19 AM  
Anonymous Dugoboy said...

one thing, anonymous posters make me leary. say all you want with no accountability...

a couple things in response to jargon. all that you were doing is describing the UN and laws as they exist today. i guess i didnt articulate the process in specificity.

at some point the call for 'reform' at the UN will reach a crescendo. after some new mass 'natural' disaster or terrorist attack, or something with syria or iran. we are talking sometime next year, early to mid 2006.

meanwhile in the US some incident will occur and posse comitatus will be suspended. or something to that effect. catastrophic event.

this reform process will happen because of all the scandals at the UN, sexual, political and financial. Annan will retire, and everyone will sigh with relief, the might beauty of 'new leadership'. haha!

the big dog, clinton will announce his wanting to run the UN.

anyway its a slow laborious process, they invoke this crap slowly.

what this reform will do is to make sure the UN will become the world government. with clinton running the pretty boat show, he provides a safe smiley face to the charade.

and when whatever event they use as the catalyst happens he'll be the one the world looks to.

its all about appearances, the passing of time while weakening some laws, strengthening others and creating new ones.

and things will feel apocalyptic. i bet you it'll have this feeling of 'it's all starting to happen!'

everyone will be caught up in its wake. the thing thats prudent to do at that time is stay calm. the entire process is meant to 'move men's blood'.

the way we let them win is by not exposing the truth. and it will be our fault. like germans during hitler's rise to power.

some part's of this is conjecture, plans may change. but clinton will run for head of the UN. and numerous 'natural' disasters, terrorist attacks or sabotage will happen..

11:37 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So if we were to find Kabala Bill figure-heading the UN, and Hillary occupying the Whitehouse - wouldn't the people at DU figure the battle was won?
Or would even they start to wake up?

12:51 PM  
Anonymous ce399 said...

Dugoboy said:
...what this reform will do is to make sure the UN will become the world government.

I don't buy into the UN NWO theory. I don't even think it's necessary for their long term designs. Recently if you recall, both France and the Netherlands rejected the EU Constitution. Both voted a resounding "No." Let's say that a EU Super State is a prototype for the NWO under the UN. It's not exactly working quite to specification is it ? Blatant coercion will not be the way to proceed as the Europeans are still too indoctrinated with the lessons of WW II. They will violently reject any actions that reek of the atrocities or draconian measures of the recent past. It's only been six decades since the end of WW II--they will have to wait a hell of a lot longer before the memories and school lessons fade.

What will be the point anyway when the virtual Corporate State presently constitutes a NWO in and of itself ? State boundaries, human rights, etc-- are all so much optional fluff in their present and operational designs. It will take many generation and decades to accomplish this UN theory. And Clinton will be dead by then. The UN NWO theory is too blatant and too obvious--even if done slowly--it will not occur fast enough to accompish their ends. That's not how the new, improved fascism works, IMO. And like I said, it's superfluous.

and things will feel apocalyptic. i bet you it'll have this feeling of 'it's all starting to happen!'

As far as I'm concerned, it's already happened. 1984, THX 1138, The Trial, Brave New World, etc. Are all now here.

santa said:
...that it also refers to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion suggests to me that it is deliberate mischief-making, another attempt to lure "conspiracy theorists" into associating themselves with crude anti-semitism, thereby discrediting themselves.

I'll second that.

1:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As Jerry said, "uh-huh, bet my boots, bet my boots"... These people are satanists.

Macabre Santa display in NYC draws stares
Mansion scene includes knife-wielding St. Nick, Barbies with severed heads

In a telephone interview Wednesday, Krupnik explained that his family thought it would be a fun way to make a comment about the commercialization and secularization of Christmas.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10467190/

2:21 PM  
Anonymous tal said...

santa said:
...that it also refers to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion suggests to me that it is deliberate mischief-making, another attempt to lure "conspiracy theorists" into associating themselves with crude anti-semitism, thereby discrediting themselves.



Please copy and post the portion(s) of Pike's letter which refers to Protocols of the Elders of Zion. I've read the damn thing 3 times and am not seeing it.

From what I have been able to find, Pike supposedly 'channelled' this information but I haven't been able to find any plausible info about when, where or how the letter was 'discovered'

Take, as a starting point, John Mitchell's 1970 statement "This country is going so far right you won't recognise it" and follow the vast sums of money poured into the coffers of the 'Christian' fundamentalists, right-wing 'think' tanks. Add Jimmy Carter's mult-hundred million dollar funding of the fundamentalist Mujahideen. Assume similar funding levels for right wing Jewish causes over the same time period and here we are today, living the consequences.

Other than its dubious provenence, I don't find the content of Pike's letter to befar of the mark.

In the end, to the PTB, we are ALL Hutus & Tutsis awaiting the signal on the radio.....

3:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

secular utopian jewish intellectuals always seem to end up patsies for lawless gangsters when they ply their trade on behalf of governments or ideologies or theories. There is something in our cognitive upbringing that makes this happen, I'm convinced of it. Are we seeking some sort of ass-kissing mercy from the brutal pain of circumcision?

3:50 PM  
Blogger RDR said...

I don't think so. Consider that most American males are circumsized, not just Jews. Muslims are also circumcized.

Strike the "secular" and the "Jewish" modifiers from your argument, and you'll be closer to the mark.

4:54 PM  
Anonymous starroute said...

I've been doing some googling, and the supposed Albert Pike quote seems to have originated with "Lady Queenborough" (Edith Starr Miller) in her Occult Theocrasy (1933), a prime source of Illuminati/anti-Masonic nonsense. (For example, Miller claims that the 19th century Masons used a Satanically-powered wireless telephone in their conspiracies. Uh-huh.)

For information on her from a Masonic source, see here or here. She appears to have been close to a British fascist, Robert Byron Drury Blakeney.

Another site says of her book:

This is a huge (741 pages) garden of misinformation, much of it gleaned from Nesta Webster (1924 entry) and "Inquire Within" (1930 and 1935 entries), and other writings of the British far right. The book is really a handbook (or "hit list") of secret and esoteric organizations, and how most of them are tied together to overthrow the established order. There are a few shards of information, here and there, but much of the material is so suspect that one can hardly trust any of it. My favorite hoot: "The Fascisti also put an end to the activities of the terrorist society known as the Mafia in 1928..." Right!!! Especially repugnant is her index, where all Jew's names are marked with the Star of David. It is a fascinating, if slightly sickening, look at the kind of paranoid fantasies being spread through the British Fascist community in the years between the two world wars.

7:41 PM  
Anonymous fujacko said...

Common Era 400 minus 1 said:

"Blatant coercion will not be the way to proceed as the Europeans are still too indoctrinated with the lessons of WW II. [...] they will have to wait a hell of a lot longer before the memories and school lessons fade."

I'm afraid you're mistaken there. I live in the Netherlands, and I can tell you, anyone under the age of 40 has little or no awareness of the 'lessons' of WWII. In fact, a recent survey showed that many kids here don't even know who Hitler was. I'm very sorry to say that Holland, along with most of Western Europe (if not all of the industrialized world) has succumbed to rampant consumerism and media-addiction. Dissociation and mental/moral bankruptcy are the name of the game; war is only an abstract idea, like a movie or a video game. Suffering is just a word.

The only reason we voted no against the constitution is that most Dutch people are ignorant and afraid. Ignorant of the fact that we strongly depend on the EU; afraid of outsiders ("immigrants are stealing our jobs, cheap imports are stealing our profits" etc...). Dutch society is almost as polarised as that of America, and I'd say the situation is ripe for any kind of radical right-wing element to mess up some serious shit.

The sheeple are everywhere.

8:25 PM  
Anonymous Kris Millegan said...

http://www.allshakespeare.com/othello/

Othello

Along with Hamlet, King Lear, and Macbeth, Othello is one of Shakespeare's four great tragedies and thus a pillar of what most critics take to be the apex of Shakespeare's dramatic art. More than anything else, what distinguishes Othello from its great tragedies peers is the role of its villain, Iago. While the usurper King Claudius of Hamlet, the faithless daughters of Lear, and the unnatural villains of Macbeth (Macbeth, his Lady and the Weird Sister witches) are all impressively evil in their own way, none of them enjoys the same diabolical role as Iago.

Iago is a character who essentially writes the play's main plot, takes a key part in it, and gives first-hand direction to the others, most notably to the noble Moor, Othello. The play presents us with two remarkable characters, Iago and his victim, with Iago as the dominant force which causes Othello to see the infidelity of his young and beautiful wife, Desdemona, with his favorite lieutenant, Michael Cassio. --Indeed, not only is "seeing" and the gap between appearance and reality-- a central theme of the play, it overlaps with other major thematic strands (trust, honor, and reputation) and sheds light on still others, including the theme of patriarchy and the political state.

=====

IAGO
Virtue! a fig! 'tis in ourselves that we are thus
or thus. Our bodies are our gardens, to the which
our wills are gardeners: so that if we will plant
nettles, or sow lettuce, set hyssop and weed up
thyme, supply it with one gender of herbs, or
distract it with many, either to have it sterile
with idleness, or manured with industry, why, the
power and corrigible authority of this lies in our
wills. If the balance of our lives had not one
scale of reason to poise another of sensuality, the
blood and baseness of our natures would conduct us
to most preposterous conclusions: but we have
reason to cool our raging motions, our carnal
stings, our unbitted lusts, whereof I take this that
you call love to be a sect or scion.

RODERIGO
It cannot be.

IAGO
It is merely a lust of the blood and a permission of
the will. Come, be a man. Drown thyself! drown
cats and blind puppies. I have professed me thy
friend and I confess me knit to thy deserving with
cables of perdurable toughness; I could never
better stead thee than now. Put money in thy
purse; follow thou the wars; defeat thy favour with
an usurped beard; I say, put money in thy purse. It
cannot be that Desdemona should long continue her
love to the Moor,-- put money in thy purse,--nor he
his to her: it was a violent commencement, and thou
shalt see an answerable sequestration:--put but
money in thy purse. These Moors are changeable in
their wills: fill thy purse with money:--the food
that to him now is as luscious as locusts, shall be
to him shortly as bitter as coloquintida. She must
change for youth: when she is sated with his body,
she will find the error of her choice: she must
have change, she must: therefore put money in thy
purse. If thou wilt needs damn thyself, do it a
more delicate way than drowning. Make all the money
thou canst: if sanctimony and a frail vow betwixt
an erring barbarian and a supersubtle Venetian not
too hard for my wits and all the tribe of hell, thou
shalt enjoy her; therefore make money. A pox of
drowning thyself! it is clean out of the way: seek
thou rather to be hanged in compassing thy joy than
to be drowned and go without her.

RODERIGO
Wilt thou be fast to my hopes, if I depend on
the issue?

IAGO
Thou art sure of me:--go, make money:--I have told
thee often, and I re-tell thee again and again, I
hate the Moor: my cause is hearted; thine hath no
less reason. Let us be conjunctive in our revenge
against him: if thou canst cuckold him, thou dost
thyself a pleasure, me a sport. There are many
events in the womb of time which will be delivered.
Traverse! go, provide thy money. We will have more
of this to-morrow. Adieu.
=====

Peace,
Kris

10:01 PM  
Anonymous ce399 said...

fujacko said:
I'm afraid you're mistaken there. I live in the Netherlands, and I can tell you, anyone under the age of 40 has little or no awareness of the 'lessons' of WWII.

Perhaps I am mistaken. I was recently speaking to a friend (under 40) visiting from Holland and I received the impression that the Dutch are far more socially, politically and historically "aware" than what you suggest. And additionally, Dutch citizens of all ages still have an extreme distaste for the Germans. Germany, also being the strongest economic state, is at the forefront in pushing for further EU integration.

Well, thanks for your reply.

10:18 PM  
Anonymous Dugoboy said...

yes i thought the denial of the EU contitution was good. good sign among many bad.

10:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry to make Dugoboy leary, but i'm a commenter not a poster, if i were doing "reporting" then of course i'd use my own name.

i believe in the power of the nobel savage and know that if there ever was an effort to dumb us down by the PTB, it was a waste of energy. (given that "stupid Americans" rarely read or watch the news, they have much less weak spineless "info" to expel, thus they are in great shape for the fight or flight reflex to kick in at the right time.

plus Americans have to learn how to compete on such a level, just to make it a corp/consumer job market, that i think we are tougher than most.

not to mention the PTB removing us from living in harmony with the land...the ones who can mentaly hack it...well we are not to be triffled with.

12:47 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

btw, any anti-UN types ever read "Confessions of a Conservative" by (i think) Garry Wills?

He has cool insights into the 1946'ish and forward era of opinion makers.

1:01 AM  
Anonymous fujacko said...

ce339,

"... I received the impression that the Dutch are far more socially, politically and historically "aware" than what you suggest."

My comments may have been a little heavy on the generalizations, but I can assure you (because I actually *am* Dutch) that the image of the Netherlands as a tolerant, level-headed, and perhaps even intellectual society, is an anachronism at best. Of course we do have politically/culturally aware people (maybe more than U.S.A., percentage-wise), and we have more transparency in government... but the average Jan, Piet, or Klaas is unlikely to recognize the current political climate for what it is, nor will he appreciate the lessons of history that can be applied to it. I have been exposed to and interacted with many areas of Dutch society--academics, commerce, government, underground culture--and my experience suggests that the majority of the population is inextricably immersed in the false reality that has been mostly engineered by the media, big business, and some fear-mongering politicians. I also lived in the U.S. for six years (D.C. and Boston) as well as several other countries, so I'd say I have a pretty wide perspective on this issue.

"And additionally, Dutch citizens of all ages still have an extreme distaste for the Germans."

I'd like to know where you got this information. In my opinion the word "extreme" is totally unwarranted in this context; in fact, I'd say our relationship with the Germans can be likened to that of the U.S. and Canada: not enemies, not friends, but derisive jokes galore. It's mostly just people born before the 1960s who are still prejudiced towards Germans.

"Germany, also being the strongest economic state, is at the forefront in pushing for further EU integration"

I'm not quite sure how the above is related to the rest of your post, but one thing we Dutch can appreciate is that the Germans are sticking to diplomacy this time around... (joke).

10:58 AM  
Anonymous Dugoboy said...

um, i'm sorry anonymous 'commenters' make me leary. lol big difference eh?

anonymous commenters make me leary because they could be disinformation agents. its very easy to throw a monkey into the spokes of this fragile commentary board. you know, turn the conversation toward a non-productive end. not saying that you did this (in reference to the anonymous poster who responded to me before} but i guess thats one of the prices we must pay to operate here.

11:22 AM  
Anonymous Dugoboy said...

*cough* that was supposed to be monkey wrench, haha!

11:23 AM  
Anonymous trachys said...

starroute - I don't know about underemployed college grads in New England. I just wanted to point out that serfs and slaves revolt.

Marx was a student of Hegel, who argued that the nation-state presented the end of history. Neither was much interested in the world outside modern Europe and its settler colonies - but many consider Haiti, founded by former slaves, the first republic of the Americas. (Incidentally, the U.S. chose not to recognize Haiti until the American Civil War.)

I don't think the poor need a petit bourgeoisie to guide them. I locate hope in every expression of distrust of the "educated class."

11:32 AM  
Anonymous ce399 said...

I'd like to know where you got this information. In my opinion the word "extreme" is totally unwarranted in this context; in fact, I'd say our relationship with the Germans can be likened to that of the U.S. and Canada: not enemies, not friends, but derisive jokes galore. It's mostly just people born before the 1960s who are still prejudiced towards Germans.

Look...I'm not about to get into a "pissing contest" with you about this. I already told you where I received this information--from trusted friends and the "word around town." Admittedly, I have never been to Holland and I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you indeed live there. Now, having said that, read the following testimony,one of many, in addition to what I've been told by long time friends:

Initiations and culture differences

During my study, I started work on the Amsterdam options exchange as a futures trader and ultimately, I worked there for 10 years as a stock options trader.

Every trader has a "ragging period" of about three months, but that baiting lasted for about a year and a half with me. That had purely and simply to do with the fact that I was German and not really because of my character.

In the first couple of years I was seriously confronted with Dutch hate of Germans. All the condemnations and stupid backchat the entire day was very exhausting.

It was strange that it only came from young people who did not experience the Second World War - older people were okay. But also half of the girls in the disco backed away as soon as they heard that I was German.


http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=6&story_id=9288&name=Dreaming+in+Dutch


Now...which Holland do you live in ?

Here, have a hey day:

The Dutch Hate the Germans

C'mon. Everybody still hates the Germans, except maybe the Austrians, the Swiss, nut jobs in the US and former puppet states in Eastern Europe and a few Islamists who can recite Mein Kampf by heart like the Koran. The Greeks hate the Germans, the French hate the Germans, the British hate the Germans, the Poles hate the Germans. etc, etc. The Germans have become the "ugly American" tourists of Europe. Ask any Greek how they like to island hop around in vast numbers and "take over" in their own particular way.

I'm not quite sure how the above is related to the rest of your post, but one thing we Dutch can appreciate is that the Germans are sticking to diplomacy this time around... (joke).

Joke indeed. Economics and proxy 'war' are the main weapons of choice 'this time around':

German Corporate Control Over (American) Media and just about everything else...

National Socialism will triumph, without having to fight another war.

-Hjalmar Schacht, Reich Minister of Economics.

1:49 PM  
Anonymous fujacko said...

"Look...I'm not about to get into a "pissing contest" with you about this."

How about a regular ole argument (just to make a point; I've actually no interest in continuing this much further)?

"I already told you where I received this information--from trusted friends and the "word around town." Admittedly, I have never been to Holland and I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you indeed live there."

Seeing as I'm not a trusted friend or a trusted stranger, I guess you should stick to what you've heard. But anyone can type a phrase into Google and then offer the results as evidence.

"Now...which Holland do you live in?"

Still the same one; the one I was born in, have lived in for years, where I have met hundreds of people of all ages and flavors, and woven a rich tapestry of experience. And you?

I won the pissing contest

6:20 PM  
Anonymous santa said...

Please copy and post the portion(s) of Pike's letter which refers to Protocols of the Elders of Zion. I've read the damn thing 3 times and am not seeing it.

Sorry. You're right. Thanks for pointing out my mistake. I saw all the stuff about zionism and fascism and started imagining things that weren't there. But I stand by the point I was making about anti-semitism.

Pike appears to have used the word "fascist" a good 20 years before it was used by anyone else, and 40 or more years before it came to be used the way we use it now (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Italian_Fascism). It's this kind of error that makes me think the Pike quote was made up by someone intent on causing confusion.

9:17 PM  
Anonymous ce399 said...

Tell you what. Make a sign that says "Hamburg" on it with big letters and try to hitch hike from Holland to Hamburg and see what happens.

I guarantee you the following will occur:

1. You will be booed.

2. You will be flipped off.

3. You will not receive a ride--except from a German.

Try that and get back to me.

12:38 AM  
Blogger 23skidoo said...

Yay for me... I found my password, and sorry that I identified myself as "Jargon" when I am "Obiejargon."

Right. Back to the UN, I was mistaken in sayng that the senate ratifies a treaty. The president does that following advice and consent from the senate.

The UN can increase their power, but even so, their constituency is still nations rather than citizens of nations. That means they can have no legitimate means to create laws or rules over a particular nation. The US Supreme Court, for example, ruled that international treaties are a valid means for the federal government to assert authority over state law when not directly contravening the constitution. The case is Mssouri v. Holland. Even were the UN to somehow assume authority as a "world government," it would not thereby gain authority over national sovereign governments. Even the suspension of posse comitatus refers to US forces, not those of any foreign nation, and US forces have a duty to uphold the Constitution in ways that foreign occupation troops would not. This is implied in that the president swears such an oath, and he would be the one to suspend posse comitatus in enforcing laws for a national emergency. Again, I argue that the UN is not where conspiracy theorists ought to be looking.

Instead, I suggest the "follow the money" approach insofar as money is power in the modern world. If the WTO and "free trade" policies dominate, those who gain are the ones who have items to sell and liquid assets to expand capitalism into the new frontiers opened up by such policies. The people who control the resources are also the ones who gain by expanding the market into third world countries. Look into such groups as Carlyle and the WTO facilitators of economic change, not the UN, which provides a forum for diplomacy and treaties but does not generally take a such a gung-ho attitude towards free trade and capitalism.

I hope my signing in assuages your doubts about that last anonymous post. Respects to you for your consideration of my entry.

1:16 AM  
Anonymous fujacko said...

CE 399,

Imagine we were arguing about what strawberries taste like. You have some friends who've sampled them on occasion, and you did a google on 'strawberries', but you've never actually had one on your tongue. I, on the other hand, grew up eating strawberries, am constantly surrounded by strawberries, and am the product of a strawberry-producing culture. And then your argument is:

"Tell you what. Go buy some strawberries and eat them. Try that and get back to me."

In other words, the person with absolutely no personal strawberry experience is telling the strawberry 'expert' to get more experienced with strawberries! Do you see the insanity in that?

You're going to ridiculous lengths at this point, and it should be obvious to anyone following our discussion that your recalcitrance is purely an ego matter. I hope you can be honest with yourself and admit it. I'll make it easier for you and leave the discussion saying that neither of us have won, because we have both only offered subjective evidence. Until either of us do a survey of the Dutch population (that is conducted correctly and honestly), we will never know.

4:51 AM  
Anonymous Dugoboy said...

hey obiejargon, i understand what your saying. the laws as they currently exist can't let it happen. all i'm saying is that over time and after a serious of disasters, the average joe will be hapless and will want it to happen.

you and me represent maybe 1 - 2 % of the american population. the rest are blissfully ignorant because i don't know if they want to know the truth just yet. if ever. and it is to their detriment.

but anyway, the UN idea is one among many. they may find people are actually resiliant to the UN-NWO. and so following the money is always a must. theres many factions within the PTB. the UN command and control concept may just end up being too overt. but its starting to seem like the PTB/illuminati are starting to not care what the appearances are, or maybe thats just the neo-cons? (neo-con = nationalist-socialism)

12:37 PM  
Anonymous Dugoboy said...

i did forget about the economic globalization institutions, WTO, IMF, free trade agreements and all that. but the economic globalization process is intended to lead towards political globalization or to go in a parallel movement in accordance with it.. power hegemonization if thats a word. make the giant so big that if it falls it takes everyone with it.

for whatever reason the EU constitution failed, i would suggest its a good sign. the problem is there is very little we can do to capitalize on that unless everyone starts voicing concerns across the world, putting uncomfortable questions to our leaders to expose how little these 'leaders' care.

the mainstream media is owned by the PTB so it lies on alternative media and blogs and people and word of mouth applying massive pressure on the media and the leaders and legislatures to give a crap and if they don't, well we have our answer.

i wish i knew what those counter measures were that are the most effecetive.

12:51 PM  
Anonymous ce399 said...

fujacko said:
The only reason we voted no against the constitution is that most Dutch people are ignorant and afraid...afraid of outsiders ("immigrants are stealing our jobs, cheap imports are stealing our profits" etc...).

then later said:
You're going to ridiculous lengths at this point, and it should be obvious to anyone following our discussion that your recalcitrance is purely an ego matter.

I think it should be pretty obvious at this point to anyone following our 'discussion' that you have been attempting to deflect other possible reasons for EU Constitution rejection by the Dutch by bringing up ultra right-wing 'talking points' as more feasible and logical reasons. ie. Immigration and employment. The same fucking Schwarzenegger ‘fuhrer princip’ bullshit Fox News / Minuteman Project talking points. That should be obvious to anyone with half an ounce of hypothalamus, unless they are a Nazi sympathizer hell bent on obfuscating the still prevelant animosities between 'Ayrans' in the so-called 'European Union.'

I would normally let this go, but I've had enough of the lies, con and bullshit.

You know what they used to do to Nazi sympathizers in Holland and France don't you... ? ...prostitutes literally 'sleeping with the enemy' ?

Shaved women collaborators
Shaved women are they traitors ?

Ring a bell ?

2:27 PM  
Anonymous fujacko said...

ce,

Your post is riddled with political-style deception and flawed rhetoric. I have taken the time to gather evidence of this, and invite you to respond to each and every point. Firstly, my two statements you quoted are separate and unrelated, but by placing them together you imply that I

"attempt to deflect other possible reasons for EU Constitution rejection by the Dutch"

Where are these deflections you speak of (quotes please)? And where are these possible reasons you offered? Oh wait, maybe it was this:

"Germany, also being the strongest economic state, is at the forefront in pushing for further EU integration"

OK, so are you suggesting that a possibe reason for the Dutch 'NO' is because of our supposed feelings towards Germany? Are you?

"[fujacko was] bringing up ultra right-wing 'talking points' as more feasible and logical reasons."

More word-twisting. Please see this quote (first sentence of my second post) where I said:

"My comments may have been a little heavy on the generalizations"

Referring of course to the notion that the majority of Dutch folks voted NO because they are mostly stupid and fear-ridden.

"[ce399, apparently implying that I'm] a Nazi sympathizer hell bent on obfuscating the still prevelant animosities between 'Ayrans' in the so-called 'European Union.'"

Please read that quote a few times. Do you like who you are as a person when you write that kind of stuff?

Most of our argument has concerned whether or not we Dutch hate the Germans. You have rejected my better-informed opinion without explaining your motives, other than the amusing suggestion that I might be lying about my background. Nevertheless, I even offered an intellectual truce on the basis of mutual lack of objective evidence.

Yet still you resort to emotionally charged language and logical fallacies (ad hominem, guilt by association, straw men). Maybe you'll treat me to a more objective, gentleman-like (or lady-like) response next time around.

Good day, sir/madam.

3:40 PM  
Anonymous ce399 said...

I'm amazed at your restraint. I'm quite suprised you did not called me a Zionist shill.

Let's forget about everything else that's gone on here. Just answer the following questions:

What is the first thing that comes into your mind when you see or hear the words "Southern Poverty Law Center" ?

I'm not administering the Voight-Kampff test here, so just be honest.

What about Willis Carto ? What happens when I mention that name ?

You don't have to answer, either way...have a Happy Holiday !
--

Rachel: Do you like our owl?
Deckard: It's artificial?
Rachael: Of course it is.
Deckard: Must be expensive.
Rachael: Very.


--

LEON
I kinda get nervous when I take
tests.

HOLDEN
Don't move.

LEON
Sorry.

He tries not to move, but finally his lips can't help
a sheepish smile.

LEON
I already had I.Q. test this year...
but I don't think I never had a...

HOLDEN
Reaction time is a factor in this so
please pay attention. Answer as quickly
as you can.

LEON
Uh... sure...

HOLDEN
One one eight seven at Hunterwasser...

LEON
Oh... that's the hotel.

HOLDEN
What?

LEON
Where I live.

HOLDEN
Nice place ?

LEON
Huh? Sure. Yeah. I guess. Is
that.. part of the test ?

Holden smiles a patronising smile.

HOLDEN
Warming you up, that's all.

LEON
Oh.
It's

HOLDEN
You're in a desert, walking along
in the sand when....

LEON
Is this the test now ?

HOLDEN
Yes. You're in a desert, walking
along in the sand when all of a sudden
you lookdown and see a.....

LEON
What one ?

It was a timid interruption, hardly audible.

HOLDEN
What ?

LEON
What desert ?

HOLDEN
Doesn't make any difference what
desert... it's completely hypothetical.

4:43 PM  
Anonymous fujacko said...

THAT'S your encore? I think you're on the brink, bro. How's Badarraco?

6:02 PM  
Anonymous You Know Who said...

And btw... ce399 said:

"I'm amazed at your restraint."

What restraint? I ripped you a new one, you Zionist shill!!!

6:50 PM  
Anonymous ce399 said...

Take Two.

You spelled it wrong. Badarraco? has two "c's" not one.

Ok, I’m back. Didn’t pull a clean enough get away last time, so might as well be time to pay the piper. Please excuse the previous glaring typo. I cannot read from a computer screen for more than a few minutes. Plus, my command of the English language is very poor. If you really want to know what’s wrong with me, I attended California public school during the era of President Reagan; so please feel very very sorry for me. Also hence, my natural gravitation toward film quotes. I'm sure you’ll understand.

Your post is riddled with political-style deception and flawed rhetoric.

Is it ? Or is that your bag ? If so, you're pretty damn good at it. In 'Iraq' you let it all hang out, but here in civil society you've got to keep that friendly face in order to insure future operations.

I’m more pissed off right now that the entire Typepad blog system took a dump after I made an extensive and damning compendium post called: Global Fascist Take Over for Dummies.

I have taken the time to gather evidence of this, and invite you to respond to each and every point.

Well…how nice of you. In the Holiday spirit I see.

Where are these deflections you speak of (quotes please)?

Quite obviously what I posted earlier:

...you have been attempting to deflect other possible reasons for EU Constitution rejection by the Dutch by bringing up ultra right-wing 'talking points' as more feasible and logical reasons. ie. Immigration and employment.

And where are these possible reasons you offered? Oh wait, maybe it was this:

"Germany, also being the strongest economic state, is at the forefront in pushing for further EU integration"

OK, so are you suggesting that a possible reason for the Dutch 'NO' is because of our supposed feelings towards Germany? Are you?

Yes, of course. That should have been obvious as well. In concert with the additional information I provided re: German Corporate Control of American Media.

"[fujacko was] bringing up ultra right-wing 'talking points' as more feasible and logical reasons."

More word-twisting. Please see this quote (first sentence of my second post) where I said:

"My comments may have been a little heavy on the generalizations"

Referring of course to the notion that the majority of Dutch folks voted NO because they are mostly stupid and fear-ridden.

No, the ‘generalizations’ you cite were in reference to this:

... I received the impression that the Dutch are far more socially, politically and historically "aware" than what you suggest.

Examine the sequence of your previous reply in this regard. The 'generalizations' were in reference to your claim of 'the historical unaware Dutch youth', and the stereotype of the tolerance of the Dutch people, not the other way around.

Here, read it again:

fujacko 10:58am:

"... I received the impression that the Dutch are far more socially, politically and historically "aware" than what you suggest."

My comments may have been a little heavy on the generalizations, but I can assure you (because I actually *am* Dutch) that the image of the Netherlands as a tolerant, level-headed, and perhaps even intellectual society, is an anachronism at best. Of course we do have politically/culturally aware people (maybe more than U.S.A., percentage-wise), and we have more transparency in government... but the average Jan, Piet, or Klaas is unlikely to recognize the current political climate for what it is, nor will he appreciate the lessons of history that can be applied to it.

Is that the same as ? :

Referring of course to the notion that the majority of Dutch folks voted NO because they are mostly stupid and fear-ridden.

Well, it might be. But your original exact quote is:

The only reason we voted no against the constitution is that most Dutch people are ignorant and afraid. Ignorant of the fact that we strongly depend on the EU; afraid of outsiders ("immigrants are stealing our jobs, cheap imports are stealing our profits" etc...). Dutch society is almost as polarised as that of America, and I'd say the situation is ripe for any kind of radical right-wing element to mess up some serious shit.

The sheeple are everywhere.


"[ce399, apparently implying that I'm] a Nazi sympathizer hell bent on obfuscating the still prevelant animosities between 'Ayrans' in the so-called 'European Union.'"

Please read that quote a few times. Do you like who you are as a person when you write that kind of stuff?

What the hell does that have to do with anything ? Why don’t you just answer the previously posted questions and we’ll settle this quick style ? Or are you afraid of completely blowing your cover and having to go 'underground.' ie. anonymous-ville. I've already made a complete fool of myself by continuing this for as long as I have, why don't you?

Most of our argument has concerned whether or not we Dutch hate the Germans. You have rejected my better-informed opinion without explaining your motives, other than the amusing suggestion that I might be lying about my background.

Are you lying about your background ? That remains to be seen.

How do we know your opinion is better informed ? I have offered the collective opinion of four separate people and a whole slew of examples from online sources. Yet, you have failed to address any of the examples I offered, except with a ridiculous "strawberry" metaphor...or whatever that was suppose to be.

Nevertheless, I even offered an intellectual truce on the basis of mutual lack of objective evidence.

Oh, how nice of you, the Holiday cheer is getting to you, I’m sure.

Yet still you resort to emotionally charged language and logical fallacies (ad hominem, guilt by association, straw men). Maybe you'll treat me to a more objective, gentleman-like (or lady-like) response next time around.

Yawn.

Good day, sir/madam.

Don’t forget the missal toe. Or TOW Missile.

PS_I suggest taking this 'discussion' into the realm of private email of 'The Fire Pit' as to not disturb our beloved host or his guests any further than we already have.

Your next post should be in 'The Fire Pit.'

6:51 PM  
Anonymous Synchronicity said...

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6:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I too am happy to see there are so many likeminded 'brothers-in-spirit' out there, may we all be saved from what is to come.

I too think there's not much we can do to fight it. It's all been tried before, and none of it has worked.

There IS a 'grand scheme of things' to this mess, and it's no surprise prophesies and bible quotes are springing up with eerie parallels to what is happening.

Hold fast!

4:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The jewish neo-cons (Perle, Wolfowitz, D.Feith, E. Abrams, Wurmster, Kristol, et. al.) never wanted to remake Iraq into a democratic Middle Eastern Arabic nation. They want a civil war and total chaos there. I would venture that most of the car bombings, assassinations, and IEDs that killAmerican GIs in Iraq are the work of Israeli agents operating inside of Iraq. The assassination of this man Hariri in Lebanon has all the markings of a Mossad operation. They want the Syrians and Lebanese fighting each other. They want the Lebanese fighting each other. When the enemy is fighting himself he has little time to come after you has been the modus operandi of the Israelis since they stole Palestine.

8:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

They want the Lebanese fighting each other. When the enemy is fighting himself he has little time to come after you has been the modus operandi of the Israelis since they stole Palestine.

Yeah that's why the Israeli invaded Lebanon in 1982 and Sharon parked his ass with tanks and missiles and bombed the once lovely city of Beirut back to the stone age. The 'enemy' (PLO and Hezbolla) was too busy fighting others and the Israeli had nothing better to do. Except the PLO had time to launch rocket attacks inside Israel and assassinate diplomats. That's why also the Israeli helped invent Hamas, so they can launch suicide missions inside Israel.

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