Tuesday, July 19, 2005

Interview with Jackie McGauley, Part Two


Digging for the McMartin tunnels

This is the second part of my interview with Jackie McGauley, leader of the McMartin parents and organizer of the tunnel dig. Part One can be read here.


How did you learn of abuse your daughter had suffered?

There were signs but we did not know what they meant. We asked other parents and their children were having the same problems. We all thought it must be normal. Who would imagine that the school and others in the community had gotten to so may of our children?

Some children talked about airplane trips. One young boy remarked that the feeling he got in his stomach as an elevator descended was just like that he felt in the airplane. We asked the teachers about the signs and they always had an answer. They played an airplane game.

My daughter was "only" at the preschool from 1983 until it closed in January 1984 for 2 days a week. She had had several severe diaper rashes. She wouldn't tell me about her time at the school. She would just say "kids."

I firest heard about the investigation from Peggy Buckey herself. She was letting parents in one at a time to look at a closet. When I asked what was going on, Peggy told me it did not concern me. As it turned out, only the parents of children that complained of being locked in a closet were allowed in. The closet was a free standing one that had shelves. We added a picture of one in the scientific archaeological report of the successful search for tunnels under the preschool building done in 1990.

Later Peggy told me her son Ray was accused of molesting a child and that it was ridiculous because "he could not hurt a fly." When I tried to ask other parents they would not tell me anything. Later I found out they thought maybe I was involved because I didn't know about the police investigation.


Ray and Peggy Buckley

Both Peggy and Virginia spent a lot of time with me and confided in me that they were the victims of a vendetta and may have to close the school. I had no idea that by August 1983 a full police investigation was under way, much less what it was all about. Babette Spitler and the others begged me to keep my daughter in the preschool. Spitler became the new Director.

The school was closed (they told me voluntarily) 18 months after my daughter had started going there. She went 2 days a week for 4 hours a day. She had severe asthma attacks on Monday mornings. My ex husband, being from an extremely frugal Scottish family, asked if we could send her on Fridays to make up the time.

Ray, Peggy and Betty appeared on the evening news in February, 1984. I asked my daughter if she knew the man on TV. She said, "Mr. Ray." I was stunned. I called the Manhattan Beach Police Department who referred me to Children's Institute International (CII). We could not get an appointment for her until the end of March.

Kee MacFarlane and Dr. Astrid Heger examined her...that opened the floodgates. She began to tell me and show me incredible things. She was terrified. I credit Kee MacFarlane's sensitivity and Dr. Heger's expertise to unlock the secrets she had been keeping.


How did Ted Gunderson enter both the investigation and your personal life? How long did you live together?

I'd love to clear up the misconception that gunderson (I never capitalize his name) was involved in the investigation. He was never formally hired or paid in any way. He simply stuck himself in by offering to do things. Who wouldn't trust the retired chief of the Los Angeles division of the FBI who introduced you to senators and former State Attorney Generals? Some things we allowed him to do but many of his ideas and attempts to take over were rejected.

He was a persistent presence. He became so annoying that eventually the parents would not talk to him. I always thought in some way that he would help our cause. He was present at the Archaeological dig as often as he could and he talked to the ever present media as the rest of us were exhausted or did errands for the crew. At the time we did not know what he was up to and did not think it would be harmful to let him talk, as we thought he said positive things.

I want you to know that allowing him to be involved was the demise of any credibility we had.


Gunderson, then and now

His reputation was well known by law enforcement, but he is such a slick con man that we had no clue what we were getting ourselves in to. I have to say that it was mostly my fault for letting him be involved. Later I found out he was COINTELPRO. Years later when I read the description of that program it all made perfect sense. (Click here: "A Short History of FBI COINTELPRO") I met ted at a California State Social Services Hearing ion San Diego, where I was formally asked, by an invitation I got in the mail, to testify. He approached me in the hallway because I was known then for keeping a file of documentation on the issue. I had appeared on several news programs and talk shows.

How he wormed his way into my home is a rather long story. Basically he tried to hire me to not only work with him, but do research for attornies, which I did maybe twice, then started hanging around our apartment. I had just been diagnosed with malignant melanoma and while waiting for results of the test, was told I may only have three months to live. He got into a nasty fight with my downstairs neighbor and my landlord doubled my rent. I had thrown him out once because of his nasty temper towards the neighbors. While looking for another place to live and still communicating with him, he found a big house one block from my children's school. Needless to say the children loved the house. Against my better judgment, I agreed to let him move in with us and share expenses. This was almost immediately after we finished finding the tunnels at the preschool. I was not only exhausted, but I had contracted Psittacosis (parrot fever) which can be fatal. My temperature was so high seemed as if I were cooking from the inside. I was very sick for weeks, ted refused to help me. He took the checks I had made out to pay bills and told me he had to give his daughter the money. That was just the start of almost 4 years of my decent into debt and serious health problems.


What caused your falling out with Gunderson? How do you regard him now, and how would you assess his part in the McMartin investigation?

I may have already answered that in the above answer.

Anyone who contacts me about him, and there have been many, including Joe Klass, Polly Klass' grandfather, I warn them that he is a con man and will destroy their credibility if not con them out of money. The Klass family did not hire him, though he has given talks about how he worked that case and mine. The prosecutor, D.A. Greg Jacobs, Sonoma County, will back that up. ted lee gunderson is a dangerous person.

He alone claims he was part of our investigation. We try our best to warn people about him. You don't need to take my word for it, ask anyone else who was involved. When I added up all of the damage he caused me, I was over $30,000 in debt. As a single mother of two small children I had no choice but to file bankruptcy. ted does not have a physical address. The addresses he uses are of other people, and a P.O. box drop in Santa Monica. Unfortunately with any high profile case there will be a lot of rumors and conjecture. Also there are a lot of well meaning people who try to attach themselves to our cause. I learned to try to be diplomatic while sifting out the crazies.

McMartin's "Happy Face" closet:


I'll have more from Jackie later.

19 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

So why did he attach himself? Or probably better, why did he do his best to scuttle their case? Sure would be nice to "dig" around to find out - join up some more dots.

3:44 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is/was Ted Gunderson involved in COINTELPRO? That's a very controversial question.

I've seen the "Ted Gunderson Chronicles" (4-hour lecture on satanism and child abuse in the USA) on the Prophecy Club. Ted Gunderson a COINTELPRO agent? It just doesn't add up. Watch that video (it's available via BitTorrent) and you'll know what I mean.

From http://educate-yourself.org/tg/ :
"The principle members of Ted's Character Assassination Team include Virginia McCullough, Cherie Seymour, & Kate Dixon of www.newsmakingnews.com, Stewart Webb, Barbara Hartwell, Kathleen Sullivan, Jackie McGauley, and Kathy Kasten of UCLA. These people have tried to characterize Ted as some version of a 'double agent' whose pretense to helping people is just a cover for his 'real work', which is to help the dark side. When you read their defamatory words, you will be given conclusions (E.g. Ted's "Cointelpro") without evidence or proof to back up their assertions. The tools these character assassins employ include repeated innuendo, guilt by association, and outright slander to support their unfounded allegations against Ted Gunderson."

6:11 a.m.  
Blogger Jeff Wells said...

"Ted Gunderson a COINTELPRO agent? It just doesn't add up."

Without saying he is, because I don't know, I can say it adds up. Is there a single case into which he's insinuated himself that succeeded? The point of COINTELPRO is to discredit the truth while speaking it. And Gunderson strikes me as a discrediting element. (Also, Gunderson's association with figures like Robert Booth Nichols and Michael Riconosciuto suggest, at least, a complicated character.)

7:19 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gundersens claim that there are 3 million satanists active in the States as of the mid-nineties seems ridiculous to me. Based on what I read off of Rigorous, I can see that RA is probably a reality. But the scope of it as claimed by Gundersen (and even DeCamp) seems embellished to me.
What is the ratio of fantasy to reality? For me it's getting impossible to tell.

Speaking of airplanes, it seems really hard for flights to take place (even private jets) without leaving a paper trail. It was even hard for Ollie North's boys like Barry Seal to cover up the illicit arms/drugs trade with the contras. As explained in Terry Reeds book, Compromised, you can't just make a flight "invisble" without a complex plan and collusion by various air traffic controllers.

If this child trafficing was taking place with such frequency. Why are there not any whistleblowers at least connected to aviation? Children at a private airport are bound to raise some eyebrows.

OK, maybe it's possible the pilots and ground traffic control were mind-controlled Illuminati sex slaves. You never know.

10:46 a.m.  
Blogger Jeff Wells said...

Gunderson's claims lift issues that are already difficult to process into the realm of pure fantasy.

As an advocate, Gunderson is an absolute failure. Is it by incompetence or design?

11:03 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"As an advocate, Gunderson is an absolute failure. Is it by incompetence or design?"

The 'innocent bumbling' hypothesis...used to such great effect in the official 9/11 report...

"Who wouldn't trust the retired chief of the Los Angeles division of the FBI who introduced you to senators and former State Attorney Generals?"

FBI Chief for one of the nation's largest cities. He didn't climb all the way up that ladder by bumbling innocently. And he didn't suddenly get stupid and clumsy when he got involved with McMartin.

3:29 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The tools these character assassins employ include repeated innuendo, guilt by association, and outright slander to support their unfounded allegations against Ted Gunderson."

Seems to me the post that contains this doesn't contain anything else other than innuendo, guilt by association, outright slander and unfounded allegations.

This is where the 'why Ted is so innocent' data gets presented, and will stand gloriously upon its own merit. Please begin...

3:36 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Gunderson's claims lift issues that are already difficult to process into the realm of pure fantasy."

Yes, the very same tactics used by the tabloids. Fill them with demonstrably stupid stuff, then discount and marginalize a subset of REAL topics through tactics like this one - where an acutal, say, 300,000 gets inflated to a too-large 3 Million.

Ah, tabloids...tabloids like the Los Angeles 'Star', owned by our friends, the EBERLES'S, who we also know as the world's leading authorities on protecting innocent childcare providers the world over from the witch-trially False Memories of duped-liar children. It's an inspiration to me how they went from publishing the child-pornography rag 'Finger', to publishing the 'Star', to publishing books debunking 'False Memories'...

3:53 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Considering how things seem to be, but are not, coincidental, would Paul and Shirley Eberle be any relation to good Ol' Bobby Eberle of GOPUSA fame?

4:45 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From 'Access Denied'by Cathy O'Brien


...The CIA had already infiltrated the Franklin case, leaving little hope that victims Paul Bonacci or Alisha Owen would have a chance to heal and recover from their ordeal. The parallels between the Franklin Case and Kelly's extended far beyond Alex Houston, yet we could not align with the Nebraska Leadership Conference due to the extent which they were being pulled down by the very ones they sought to expose. Their evidence against George bush, Sr. was overwhelming, as was ours. Yet convergence of the information could have placed Kelly in the same precarious position that the Nebraska victims were struggling to survive...

..."The Nebraska Leadership Conference is one more example of how well intentioned organizations become infiltrated," Mark commented.

"Why are they aligned with Ted Gunderson?" I asked. Ted was a well-known and liked former FBI agent who was Resident Agent in Charge of the Southeastern Division in Memphis during the years that I was abused. He claimed he had not been aware of the blatant and rampant investigations into the McMartin Preschool child abuse scandal resulted in one of the worst nightmares in California history. Ted retired in 1979 as Senior Special Agent in Charge of the FBI in Los Angeles California, and his friendship with LA police Chief Darryl Gates blazed through the infamous LA riots.

"I don't know thy they associate with Gunderson," Mark answered. "I always say 'I know who to trust because I know how to trust 'becasue of people like him. Ted is such a likeable person, yet we know better to align ourselves with him. He's like the kiss of death."

"He reminds me of Leslie Neilson's character in 'Naked Gun' where everyone around him dies while he obliviously smiles his way through," I mused.

Mark laughed. "Your not the first person to make that comparison. Ted even looks like that Neilson character since they are both of Norwegian decent."

"why are people judged by their projection rather that by their actions?" I wondered. "The old adage 'never judge a book by its cover' certainly should be applied. People in the public eye like Ernest Ray and other entertainers I know; or Jim Traficant, and most politicians I know, can project anything and folks buy into it. Why? Can't they see?"

"In the case of the Nebraska Leadership Conference," Mark thoughtfully replied,"desperation and ignorance seems to have blinded them to reality.You know yourself that fear is blinding. I takes logic and a rigid formula to survive CIA containment."

...."That reminds me," I thought aloud. "Civia and Ted Gunderson are friends. They knew each other through the McMartin scandal. Civia, as a reporter, covered the story while Ted, as an investigator, tried to uncover it. 'Small world' as my abusers would say. It is a bizarre coincidence!"

"There is no such thing as a coincidence if a Fed and a journalist are involved," Mark advised. "When the same people keep popping up over and over again, there is a reason for it. Signs like this should never be ignored."

"It does help identify who is part of containment and 'cover-ops'."

3:49 a.m.  
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7:17 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

TED GUNDERSON WAS VERY MUCH INVOLVED WITH McMARTIN BECAUSE HE WAS SEEN BEING INTERVIEWED ON CH 13
CH 9 , 5 etc. REPORTERS WERE THERE TAKING EXTENSIVE INTEREST IN THE INVESTIGATIONS, TED WAS VERY MUCH IN CHARGE, DESPITE WHAT JACKIE REMEMBERS.

WHAT JACKIE FAILS TO POINT OUT IT WAS A PEREZ FROM THE LA DISTRICT ATTORNEY SENT TO DO DAMAGE CONTROL ON THE EVIDENCE THAT TED AND OTHERS UNCOVERED, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE OFFICIAL LAW ENFORCEMENT PEOPLE DUG FOR TUNNELS LESS THAN SIX INCH'S DEEP AND TED BROUGHT IN A BACK-HOE AND DUG OVER TWENTY FEET!

THIS WAS A BASIC COVER-UP WHETHER JACKIE WANT'S TO ADMIT TO IT OR NOT THE OFFICIALS BLOCKED EVIDENCE THAT SHOWED TUNNELS AND INDEED THERE WERE!

TREPIDATOR

4:11 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

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7:26 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

thanks for bringing the interview.

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11:07 p.m.  
Anonymous mondo said...

Jeff, why don't you erase all the spam comments on your posts? IT would seem, especially with the McGauley interviews, that you would want to protect them.

11:27 a.m.  
Blogger Unknown said...

Why doesn't Jeff erase the spam? I believe he is paid disinfo. It's about raising the noise to signal ratio. He's been involved in many disinfo scripts over the years, and he can be linked to many other disinfo fucks. By the way, anyone who believes Hartwell, Webb, Dixon, and others have been in a legitemate fight with Gunderson, Educate-yourself, and others is not a critical thinker. This whole thing was scripted. The internet is a cesspool. A deliberately created one. You can't even use the search engines anymore. They are useless. This is what is referred to as a limited hangout. My question is whether Jackie is insane or also on the payroll.

3:13 a.m.  
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