Carry on Killing
Now at midnight all the agents, and the superhuman crew,
Come out and round up everyone that knows more than they do - Bob Dylan
Damn the blind eyes of anyone who still can't see after Basra.
How it began:
"Two persons wearing Arab uniforms opened fire at a police station in Basra. A police patrol followed the attackers and captured them to discover they were two British soldiers," an Interior Ministry source told Xinhua. The two soldiers were using a civilian car packed with explosives, the source said.
Here are the two while in Iraqi police custody. Reuters appended a note to each photo over the wire: "ATTENTION EDITORS - THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT REQUESTS THAT THE IDENTIFICATION OF THIS MAN IS NOT REVEALED, EITHER VIA PIXELLATION OF THEIR FACES OR BY NOT PUBLISHING THE PHOTOS."
As you probably know, they didn't remain in custody for long:
British forces using tanks broke down the walls of the central jail in the southern city of Basra late Monday and freed two Britons, allegedly undercover commandos, who had been arrested on charges of shooting two Iraqi policemen.
Witnesses said about 150 Iraqi prisoners also fled the jail.
Violence flared earlier in the day as demonstrators hurled stones and Molotov cocktails at British tanks; at least four people were killed.
The British Defense Ministry spun, but found it difficult to maneuver with its pants about its ankles. "We‘ve heard nothing to suggest we stormed the prison," a defense ministry spokesman in London said. "We understand there were negotiations." When it found some equilibrium, it changed its story to better comport with the undeniables: "We understand that the authorities ordered their release. Unfortunately they weren't released and we became concerned for their safety and as a result a Warrior infantry fighting vehicle broke down the perimeter wall in one place."
These hard men, likely SAS ops, must have had some stories to tell, otherwise tanks would not have negotiated their way through the prison walls of Britain's reputed hosts so soon after their capture.
Walking into the untidied mess of this astonishing and grotesque and predictable story feels a bit like the British detective catching the killer red-handed: "Well well well, what have we here?" We have long had reason to suspect imperial instigation to Iraq's sectarian violence, but here, as clearly as we've ever seen it, is the provocateur state revealed: two British "undercover soldiers" in Arab dress, caught firing upon police from a car laden with explosives. And the British government all but admitting its culpability by breaking them out of prison.
It doesn't make sense? Only if you haven't been paying attention. This is the subtext of the Iraq tragedy: blow up the Hajis and play the Sunnis on the Shias; create the chaos that introduces the conditions necessary for the long-game, and the long-held aspirations of the neoconservatives to divide Iraq into ethnographic bantustans.
I wonder what will be made of this story by those who think escalating bloodshed in Iraq is a measure of the failure of US policy, and not its success, and who believe black ops and false flags are figments of our paranoiac fantasies. Probably, as with so much that would bedevil their worldview if only they were intellectually honest enough to permit it, this too will be filtered out and forgotten. But our burden is we won't forget. And damned if the Iraqis will.
A British soldier jumps from a burning tank which was set ablaze after a shooting incident in the southern Iraqi city of Basra September 19, 2005. Angry crowds attacked a British tank with petrol bombs and rocks in Basra on Monday after Iraqi authorities said they had detained two British undercover soldiers in the southern city for firing on police.
posted by Jeff at 4:25 AM
213 Comments:
The only source I can find referencing explosives in the car is Xinhua. Given that they were intially reprinting the story put out by the BBC one wonders just how much faith should be put in this Chinese media report.
Almost had you going there didn't I... waiting for confirmation on stories which may damage a really good conspiracy... who's heard of such a thing.
waiting for confirmation on stories which may damage a really good conspiracy...
From Kos, B.B.C. World Radio reports initially identified the car the SAS drove as being: "full of explosives and bomb making equipment."
Astonishing article Jeff.
I have watched various TV news reports on this incident and no where do they make it clear that these thugs were dressed as Arabs and were seen attacking Iraqi policemen.
It is still amazing to me just how complicit the UK media are in all this murder.
Instead of questions about what the hell the SAS were up to and why, all we get are dramatic shots of British soldiers on fire. And lots of commentary about how the soldiers never opened fire on the crowd! Amazing, UK soldiers get caught red handed in a false flag operation and the Iraqis are the bad guys.
Well if there ever was any doubt that the Iraqi on Iraqi attacks thyat we see on a daily basis were the work of the US, UK and Israel military they are surely gone now.
I just pray the Iraqis refuse to be manipulated into civil war.
Also I am now convinced the 7/7 London bombings were an inside job as well.
Reports in the media today are saying the 'bombers' did a trial run some weeks before. This comes as no surprise to me.
The bombers were conned into thinking they were on some other task. They were lulled into a false sense of security after they were made to do several dry runs (on who knows what made up reason) not knowing that on in a future run they were going to be carrying real bombs. The frantic phone calls from the bus bomber after he found out about the tube bombs tells us just how surprised he was. He must have realised he had been set up just prior to his own death.
Britain is a terrorist state and Tony Bliar is a criminal. I am sick of this shit. I want that bastard in jail.
"Well if there ever was any doubt that the Iraqi on Iraqi attacks thyat we see on a daily basis were the work of the US, UK and Israel military they are surely gone now"
That's like saying because you saw a black man wearing clogs that you no longer believe there is such a place as Holland.
The scale of studies into the Iraqi insurgency, guerrilla tactics and bombmaking cells are simply unprecedented. The same networks have taken over entire towns and imposed Islamic law.
I cannot even fathom the level of gullibility you would need to reach to believe that that the daily bombings in Iraq are a ruse. You would literally make the Moon Landing Hoax guys look like history professors.
It's OK, Tank. It's OK.
We know your just doing your job. But if you want to keep it, you'll need to be a bit more subtle - especially round here.
waiting for confirmation on stories which may damage a really good conspiracy
Washinton Post:
BASRA, Iraq, Sept. 19 -- Heavy clashes erupted Monday between Iraqi police and British soldiers based in Basra, Iraq's second-largest city, witnesses said.
The clashes are the latest in surging tensions in Basra, a Shiite-dominated city that had long been one of Iraq's calmest. Attacks have targeted British and Americans there.
Monday's clashes stemmed from the arrest by Iraqi police on Sunday of two Britons, whom Iraqi police accused of planting bombs.
A Western military spokesman in Basra confirmed "an ongoing disturbance" in the city on Monday but said Iraqi and British force were working together to try to quell it.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/19/AR2005091900572_2.html?nav=rss_world
Tank:
Obviously, there is a real insurgency in Iraq, or rather several real insurgencies. What we are talking about is a policy which is using "agents provocateurs" to incite inter-sectarian violence, to manipulate the various ethnic and religious groups into mistrusting and hating and fighting each other. To achieve this end, it is necessary to do some killing, and make it look like someone else did it.
The motivations for doing this are obvious:
1. To prevent a unified front of Sunni Arabs, Shia Arabs and Kurds forming against the occupation. It's better to have them fighting each other, and for one or two of the groups to be dependent on the US/UK for their protection against one of the others.
2. To prevent a strong, central government from emerging in Baghdad. The new Iraqi government is already very close to Iran. A strong, popular government in Iraq, able to defend itself and thus having no need of US/UK forces, dominated by Tehran, would be the worst possible outcome for the neo-conservatives.
Thus, the killing must continue.
Excellent work Jeff, thank you for the fortitude to post this vital story, especially the mug shots!
That MI-6 used an asset and cut-outs to perform the synthetic terror op on 7/7/05 and now this is not beyond the pale at all. In fact it is standard operating procedure for British military intelligence. For example during the Mau Mau uprising in Kenya, the SAS went as far as to don blackface makeup to carry out terror attacks on civilians and pin it on the Mau Mau insurgents. These Al Jolson impersonators sought to "expose" to the world the "savagery" of the Mau Mau. Thus discrediting the Kenyan independece movement and opening the door to prop up their neo-colonial puppet moderates. The CIA did the same in Nicaragua by impersonating the Ortega's FLN soldiers to murder and terrorize the civilian populace and demonize their revolutionaries.
I had been following reports that stated the Iraqi people were now educated to this tactic and were on the lookout for synthetic terror operations to foment a civil war. They were apparently very successful and caught these two serial scumbags who have no compunction in killing men. women and children.
The SAS and MI-6 is now bare-assed to the entire world. It's just a matter of time before the CIA and Mossad are caught red-handed. I think the masses at large are getting hip to these operations, and it's having a chilling effect on their ops.
Cheney and his masters are foaming at the mouth to green light their next synthetic terror operation: a "nuke incident" in an American city. This will allow them to finish off their plans to manifest Police State U.S.A. We must all be as vigilant as the rest of the targeted world.
And while we're on the subject of BushCo and BlairCo's continued efforts to stay in Iraq at whatever cost , check out this astonishing story (and, equally astonishing, largely unreported or commented on):
http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm10.showMessage?topicID=1035.topic
Anonymous Pants Elk
Two things:
First, this begins to be another example of how the "incompetence theory" of history is simply inadequate. Oh those guys are just so DUMB...that's what the problem is.
Secondly, in a nice bit of timing, the BBC has announced that there is video evidence of the 7/7 bombers making a practice run and Zarqawi taking credit.
Of course, only one of the bombers has a backpack and they all three go to King's cross and there are simply no other possible reasons three young men could travel together...bu that's another story.
Amidst the din of wolf-crying, fantastic flights of extrapolation beyond the evidence, semiotic "scrying", and the paranoia crack trade that gets carried on around here, particularly on the RI board...THIS incident has the hallmarks of a legitimately suspicious event.
I just saw the CNN report of the jailbreak ordered by the British to free the two soldiers...no mention of the chain of events that led to their imprisonment in the first place.
Tank-
I'm one of those Moon Landing Hoax gals, or at least definitely leaning that way, it would take a lot to convince me otherwise. A topic for another day, though.
"...It's just a matter of time before the CIA and Mossad are caught red-handed."
Both organisations have been caught red-handed committing crimes before. People don't seem to mind that much, some considered Ollie North a hero.
Here's the CNN report. It says the 2 soldiers were "rescued" from a Shiite militia safehouse near the jail. Even with the meager attempts to downplay this incident, the article is actually pretty damning.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/09/20/iraq.basra/index.html
"This incident has the hallmarks of a legitimately suspicious event"
Gosh. Suspicious? Really? In what way? Looks like an in-yer-face, up-front, out-in-the-open bit of covert warmongering to me.
quoth The Omega Man:
"...It's just a matter of time before the CIA and Mossad are caught red-handed."
Yeah, any day now... >:-/
Here's three more! If I kept looking, I'm sure I could find another 5-6 crimson-soaked hands holding flags under which they were never born.
no s#*t sherlock, the British eeh!
well bless my soul Jim lad, who would have thunk it!
so who are the provocateurs -- insurgents - the
yanks the brits and the mossad -- possibly in reverse order
Shine a light shine a light --
no s#*t sherlock, the British eeh!
well bless my soul Jim lad, who would have thunk it!
so who are the provocateurs -- insurgents - the
yanks the brits and the mossad -- possibly in reverse order
Shine a light shine a light --
Here's a link that details some of the SAS false flag operations. As we see more and more of these operations, we should educate ourselves to their previous "successes". US Special Forces units in Vietnam also participated in false-flage ops decimating villages and leaving behind AK's, black pajamas, sandals, etc. to implicate the VC/NVA. The link:
http://members.tripod.com/selousscouts/unconventional.htm
The most encouraging aspect of this story is the full-on reaction of the Iraqis to the British troops when they came to try and snatch their SAS death squad members.
The Iraqis are obviously very wise to the suspected activities of the British, Americans and Israeli military, and when they finally caught some of them red handed in a blatant false flag op they went ballistic, and rightly so.
Whatever goodwill the British had accumulated, by not being heavy handed jar headed Americans, will be gone now.
As for the SAS, I am glad the world is seeing how these 'heroes' really operate, by killing women and children in cowardly attacks. Heroes my arse.
After this is there anyone left in Iraq who believes that Iraqis are slaughtering Iraqis?
How does this impugn the "incompetence theory"? Unless getting caught red-handed, repeatedly, is itself falseflag-psyop-disinfo cleverness, in which case you cannot hope to ever know the real truth. Without looking it up, I'm not even sure if I'm using the word "impugn" correctly.
Tony Blair reminds me of Hugh Grant, more than anything else, and I suspect he'd be flattered by the comparison.
I'm rather curious as to why everyone always assumes Israel is the puppet master here? Without a shred of evidence posters keep assuming that Israeli's are involved. Hate on Jews much folks? Nevermind that it is obvious that the very process that is going on in Iraq has been going on in Israel for decades. It isn't coincidental that the UK, masters of pitting different ethno-religious groups against one another had a major role in creating the state of Israel, all while sitting on their hands while pogroms raged throughout Europe (and thus fueling the disapora). That there has been no lasting peace there is intentional and has little to do with the average Israeli or Palestinian and everything to do with the US/UK fueling the fires on both sides.
But back to Israeli's running around in Iraq. To what end? Israel has not gained a single thing since Bush has been in office. They've been forced to give up territory and their economy has gone in the toilet. Assisting with false flag ops in Iraq doesn't get them anything--they don't get rewarded by the US and if they are caught it will only turn world opinion against them more. Now mind you, I know that the sociopaths Sharon and Peres are hell-bent on destroying Israel anyway, so I wouldn't entirely put it past them to assist their masters in some task which does not at all benefit Israel (which sooner or later is going to get sacrificed). That said, there is no evidence that they're doing any such thing. And the very fact that people who get most of what is going on are always willing to lump Israel into the mess just goes to show the effectiveness of the anti-semetic psyops. Just witness various 9/11 researchers. Again, not coincidence that the story about Israelis getting emails about the WTC were leaked and the story about the Israeli's "celebrating" on the bridge...and then the Israeli "art student" story floated soon after. People are willing to believe Jews are evil and are the puppet masters (old, old meme there) and such stories make pefect covers to throw otherwise intelligent people off the trail of the ones that are really pulling the strings. Hitler's propaganda machine used to sell the same lies about the Jews. This is no different. And this is not to excuse any crimes the Israeli government may have committed (which, like all governments, they have), but to say that the knee-jerk "Israel did it" response is itself a false flag thrown out there to deceive.
One need only consider how the middle east would look if peace had been brought to the region 30 or 40 years ago. Democratic government would have been introduced to the Islamic states on their terms, Israel would have shared technology with its neighbors and helped to diversify those nations so that they weren't so dependent on oil for their economies. If everyone hadn't bought into the fact that having Jews not under Islamic rule wasn't really the thorn in their side holding them back then you'd see a stronger, more self-determined middle east now, one where fundamentalism (of any religion) had not taken such a strong foothold. And such states are not so corrupt and easily bullied. All of this divisiveness winds up working to our benefit (and by "our" I mean those that rule us).
So maybe Israeli's are running around helping the US and UK with their evil deeds--but I see neither evidence, nor self-interest in doing so. I'd say the fact the US is building rather large military bases in Israel (as documented by Barry Chamish and others) is indicative that they have a fate similar to Iraq coming to them shortly....
Interesting. And wrong. I'm not anti-semetic, and I think it's wise to be incredulous of the "blame the Jews" type propegandizing that often goes on, but to suggest that Israel is suffering due to US policies is simply hilarious. Israelis have been caught spying in US agencies, Israel gets plenty of money from the US taxpayer, Israel gets plenty of support from the US corporate media. My suspicion is that there is an Israeli faction in the US/UK terrorist state axis...
From ABC News:
"Iraqi television on Tuesday showed footage of the two soldiers, unshaven and looking nervous as Iraqi police looked over wigs, Arab headresses, an anti-tank missile and communications equipment, all apparently used in their mission."
Fine post on this crazy story, Jeff. I was hoping you would write something on this subject. I was writing an email to an editor friend as this started leaking out yesterday; I'll paste in the relevant part:
"U.K. undercover troops -- What the hell is an 'undercover' soldier? Isn't that just a spy or a terrorist or whatever? -- dressed as Arabs, shooting at Iraqi police, accused of planting bombs ... their capture leads, of course, to riots all over 'relatively peaceful' Basra, leading to the obvious need for more U.S. and U.K. troops to 'control the situation,' which of course they created, on purpose ... and just as I typed those words, that ignorant muppet Wolf Blitzer comes on with a photo of that very riot ... and claims it has something to do with local officials not looking for a missing child! Incredible!
And the picture shown behind Blitzer on CNN is the very picture that goes with the Reuters story about the U.K. troops dressed as Arabs firing on the Iraqi police. And the picture is of a U.K. soldier on fire, crawling out of a burning tank ... Oh, and another journalist was murdered in Basra. A local reporter for the New York Times. Found murdered today, just as Steven Vincent was murdered in Basra a few weeks ago. The occupying armies of freedom don't seem to like journalists very much, do they?"
I've believed at least some of the "suicide bombings" were the deliberate work of our fine black-ops death squads for some time now. These stories have been all over the Iraqi blogs -- the ones that aren't obvious CIA / State Dept. psyops, anyway. I'm sure most of you have seen this, which went public in May.
There may be a Grand Conspiracy behind all this, but I don't need one for everything to make perfect sense. And good lord, with Tony Blair on record as "relishing" sending his fellow citizens to die -- his "first blooding," as the papers reported over the weekend -- and the Bush gang taking obvious delight in refusing to meet with the families of killed soldiers or to even bother pretending to care about withdrawing troops, I sure don't need additional bogeymen like Israel's government. (Although it's fairly evident all three do empower each other's brutality and cruelty, just as the U.S. empowers Putin's fake terror operations and quick march to a new Russian dictatorship.)
I am satisfied knowing that shares of the five major U.S. defense stocks have risen by almost 75% since 9/11, and that energy & war service contractors are earning hundreds of millions of dollars per day in Iraq. Every day of chaos is a day of success. Even if this U.S. government falls and an ever-so-slightly less corrupt government replaces it and withdraws from Iraq (unlikely; Democrats are the biggest war whores in D.C., with "front runner" Hillary nearly frothing at the mouth for more bloodshed & more "wars on terror"), the current mafia in charge has another three years to bring home the money and leave so big a mess that those same contractors will continue operations all over the Middle East and Central Asia for decades to come. Corpses = Success, just like 9/11, just like Katrina. Sometimes you just luck out and get a killer storm that lets you try racially cleansing a city, sometimes you have to do the Hard Work yourself, but the important thing is to never pass up the opportunity to kill as many of your citizens as you can get away with, because the profits are tremendous.
And when the "oil crisis" (which is both real & fake) reaches true crisis level, then that trickle from Iraq's "terrorized" oil industry will turn to a river, and folks will be happy to see gasoline back to a reasonable $4 a gallon, as the oil companies continue raking in profits previously unseen in the history of their industry.
[quote]Just witness various 9/11 researchers. Again, not coincidence that the story about Israelis getting emails about the WTC were leaked and the story about the Israeli's "celebrating" on the bridge...and then the Israeli "art student" story floated soon after.[/quote]
Errrr...Ummm...
The stories are true.
Read into them what you will.
But you cannot doubt their veracity.
The initial reports that I heard on BBC 4 radio programme (Hourly headlines & the Today programme) mentioned that the cars were reportedly carrying explosives and that the British Soldiers were dressed in Arab Headress.
Listening to the same headlines over the past 2 days, the mention of the explosives has been dropped and the soldiers were described as being dressed in 'Civilian Clothes'. (it doesn't quite paint the same picture - most people would think of western civilian clothes - the point is they were in Aran civilian clothes i.e. IN DISGUISE!)
Also the UK Times paper this morning has a headline that the current troubles in Basra are the FAULT OF IRAN!! (see http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7374-1788585,00.html )
I doubt the Ministry of Defence knows anything about what they were up to.
It smacks of the Shadow Government, direct from Buckingham Palace.
Just like the Force Research Unit under Brigadier Gordon Kerr in Northern Ireland.
For more details see my letter to Judge Peter Cory dated 10 July 2003 at
http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm9.showMessage?topicID=6.topic
post 176
"To survive, the spectacle must have social control. It can recuperate a potentially threatening situation by shifting ground, creating dazzling alternatives- or by embracing the threat, making it safe and then selling it back to us"- Larry Law, from The Spectacle- The Skeleton Keys
The guy with black shirt looks like a heavy duty ass-hole. He looks like he could use a good motherfucking kick to the head and telling by the shape of his mouth, he looks likes it's molded to take on dick so I'd give him the choice of sucking a bullet through his thorax or having his little dick cut off and tell him to eat it or fucking get a free trip to demon land where they are waiting for prostitutes like him. British stiff upper lip, what a crock of shit. I lost all respect for you stupid fucks years ago and America as well. Your full of nothing but and I pray your countries fall hard into the woven shit basket you've created for everyone. All of you who are silent are to blame just as much as anyone and none of that bullshit "we didn't vote for them"
Fuck-you.
Mom, don't post when you've been drinking...
Here's a picture of what these asshats were carrying: http://tinyurl.com/dvm3h
You should see me when I'm drunk. my favorite past time was pretending to be a roll over but I loved seeing the looks of Oh,Oh bit off more than on their stupid fucking faces. If I'm not punching metal bins I'm waiting to take out the guy with the black belt attitude. Fuck the shapeshifters .
Brits have carried on with the Monty Python tude long enough get your heads out of your..... what's the point, your a lost cause go vote your rock star B;air back in you could use another John Lennon wife beating acid head in the house for another decade. Till2112
Brits have carried on with the Monty Python tude long enough get your heads out of your..... what's the point, your a lost cause go vote your rock star Blair back in you could use another John Lennon wife beating acid head in the house for another decade. Till2012
Gotta give you something.
My post of the year:
"Anonymous said...
Mom, don't post when you've been drinking..."
... and anonymous, too!
to Dream's End re: "incompetence theory"
you're right! it makes great propaganda because it is one of the only excuses that allows one to remain behind the veil of plausible deniability. children use this excuse on parents and teachers all the time..."where is your homework" "oh i forgot it" "ok, bring it tomorrow" "whew". incompetence and false flags make the best Big Lies...
to RDR re: CNN confering "legitimacy"
perhaps individuals who believe this are what alphabet agency profilers refer to as a "scotch man" (one who trusts the authorities and their vintages/status/alma maters more than their own power of reason...aka catholic)
e.g., wolfowitz et al. understand that steam must occasionally be released. as a narrative becomes increasingly implausible (to those that are even prone evaluate it this way) glimpses must be revealed to those paying attention (everyone else has pretty much picked an authority figure they trust e.g., husband Tom Brokaw or even Mike Moore and if he doesn't say it..it ain't real). by revealing these glimpses to the initiated, pressure on their psychies is lifted and they need not dig any deeper to salve their dissonance. but among those figuring it out...what does this accomplish? some recoil in fear and awe and talk amongst themselves while certain others simply pat themselves on the back for their realization. these are sometimes the same people (race less important than class here) who clearly see other subcultures being gamed and turned against themselves but quietly ask themselves "is it up to ME to explain it to THEM?" (before climbing back in their volvo/lexus/suv at the filling station)
to Anonymous re: "hate on Jews" and "One need only consider how the middle east would look if peace had been brought to the region 30 or 40 years ago. Democratic government..."
no one was on THIS thread claiming that "isreal is the puppet master"..that is your quote. fact is, these tricks (false flags) are endemic to human nature (even CIA and Mossad every other human who has cleverly lied) and are more common on school playgrounds than in geopolitics. recognizing false flags when they occur is NOT an indication of paranoia or pinning the worlds problems on one institution but of rigorous intuition.
now, of course the other anonymice singling out "Jews" as problems and spewing out violent wet dreams ("sucking a bullet" etc etc...i too wish it was someones drunken mother) are most likely provocateurs because the stupidity necessary to make these remarks would never have allowed them to find, read, and post to this blog...
lastly to Tank and CERTAIN other anonymice: your handlers have you misprofiled (my $.02 in case any of my tax dollars are at stake)...
I'm a little confused at the speed with which commenters assert that some undercover military personnel being caught in some act constitutes proof that black-ops are the source of insurgency. If you can assume that not every event is a play in the conspiracy - that sometimes the conspiracy would just run parallel with 'normal' plans, I think it's fairly obvious that if you (as UK or US) thought that positions of civic / political / military power were being coopted by undesireable forces (let's face it, that's what half the stuff on this site is about), and bearing in mind you're in a warzone anyway - a 'reasonable' option might be to kill those elements you have determined to be undesireable, rather than openly denigrate the institutions you are trying to set up (police / local govt. etc). These particular style of action can be applied to a allies = good scenario as well as an allies = bad scenario.
I'd be more concerned about how easily it is public and why, it's not so hard to have it kept quiet or blown up into something significanly bigger to obscure the important event.
I don't want to sound like I'm not open to the basic idea presented in the article and comments, it's just not the only explanation. As an aside to at least one of the comments - maybe the fact that the soldiers in the APC didn't just shoot or steamroller their way out is something worthy of more than a sneer (i doubt the squaddies are in on the big conspiracy) - regardless of whether you think the mob were justified.
Finally, like the site alot - but I do have to try and think positive thoughts after reading it - it's pretty unrelenting in its ability to make one despondent.
.peace.
Fuck this blame game shit, when a guy sell's you a Swiss watch for 50 bucks and tell's you quickly [twice] it's a ten dollar watch then puts his money in that bank, who the hell's falt is it? Uh DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Theirs.
Joe American; "It's still a bargain cause I can sells it for 20 and make a profit so I know what I'm doing, your just jealous of our killing rate."
Number one, the Mossad is a terrorist organization, absolutely and unequivocally. Number two, the government of Israel has immense stockpiles of nuclear and CBW weapons, and has been conducting experiments in ethno-specific weaponry. Number three, Israel besides being the biggest benefitter of US welfare in the form of international aid has also blatantly flouted every UN sanction and parameter given them. Number four, no one here has commented on Jews, Judaism or even inflicted any sort of verbal malice towards Jewish people or the people of Israel. Comments were made about the government of Israel and their vile enforcer the Mossad. If someone mentions the CIA no one flies up in arms and says "Oh my god, they're attacking Christians!" or equally, "Oh my god the attacking the people of the U.S.!"
So how are associations like these to be drawn from relevant points and very specific targets. Anonymous 3:28 makes a very impassioned point that's being misconstrued. People who do not join the ranks of humanity and decide to be played out by falling prey to petty nationalism and even worse... blind obedience and leader idolatry, are indeed culpable for the acts done in their name.
Do you excuse nationalist masses of Germans or Japanese for supporting their sick leadership and heinous crimes during WWII?
Don't expect the world's long-suffering masses to excuse those of us compliant, supportive or silent as corporations and their government proxy sacks, loots, kills, extorts, assassinates, manipulates, sterilizes, poisons and genocidally culls their people.
And allow me to short circuit any wildly inappropriate accusation and castigations of anti-semitism before it starts. Don't fall into the M.O. of the B'Nai Brith and the ADL's of shouting down any mention of the word Israel, Mossad or any truly documented crimes and criminals with patently false wolf-cries of anti-semitism. The term has been viciously co-opted and misappropriated to suit specific agendas and censorship of criticism of STATE policies. The word even by it's very definition, incorporates ANYONE of semitic origin.
Semite:
1) Se·mit·ic, adj.
Of or relating to the Semites or their languages or cultures.
2) Of, relating to, or constituting a subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic language group that includes Arabic, Hebrew, Amharic, and Aramaic.
So technically the war against the Iraqi populace could be considered an act of anti-semitism.
Is there real and ugly anti-semitism? Undeniably, so it behooves us to use that shotgun in very appropriate circumstances lest it cheapen the term. Much like inappropriate uses of racism, chauvinism or any other forms of discrimination.
I suggest you for your edification, George Galloway's book "Galloway Goes to Washington", as well as any of his extremely stirring, and enlightening speeches or interviews. I also recommend "By Way of Deception & The Other Side of Deception" by ex-Mossad officer Victor Ostrovsky.
The people of aggressor nations do not define the people of that nation. I wish there was a disclaimer we could use to announce to the world... The views and opinions of the *insert nation here* DO NOT neccessarily represent the views and opinions of the masses of the nation in general.
Instead of blaming everybody in a sort of blanket way, how about we do a little bit of cui bono and think about who's really to blame.
There are always assholes ready to get swept up in whatever the brutality du jour may be, but their only payoff is that they get to be assholes. Who's really winning here?
The Brits are the most accomplished Machiavellians of the lot, and they have a history of meddling in the Middle East that goes back to at least when they picked up the Suez Canal on the cheap (1870-something was it?) and intensified after 1900 when the oil started coming in. Bank operations seem to be a British specialty, from BCCI to all the weird shit going on over the years from the Bahamas and the Channel Islands. I also don't doubt that they deliberately set up a Jewish state in Palestine as a way of establishing a beachhead of European culture in the Middle East.
But much of the British interest in the region passed into American hands between the end of World War II and the Suez Crisis (1956, I think), and their current activities in the region seem to be more out of nostalgia than as major players.
The Israelis, on the other hand, are very much a part of the action. Their current strategy (together with some of the US Neocons) seems to involve doing everything they can to weaken the Arabs while making alliances with non-Arab nations in the region like Turkey and Pakistan and potentially even Iran. And Israel (unlike the United States) does have citizens who can speak Arabic and pass as Iraqis. I wouldn't be surprised if a certain amount of the chaos in Iraq (possible including the intimidation of doctors and other professionals) was of Israeli making.
But I'd be really surprised if Israeli influence outside of their own immediate neighborhood went beyond lobbying, a little spying, and the occasional high-publicized commando operation. They just don't have the resources.
So that leaves the Americans, who as everybody knows are idiots who don't have the subtlety to make their way out of a brown paper bag without nuking it. They could theoretically be inciting the Brits and the Israelis to do their dirty work for them -- but to what purpose? Aside from the Neocons, the best interests of the Bush administration would seem to be in an Iraq modeled roughly after Germany or Japan -- peaceful, superficially democratic, happy to be part of the US economic sphere and to give house room to several American bases. Chaos of the kind we're seeing just doesn't fit into the game plan.
The BFEE has also notoriously had a lean towards the Arabs -- and the Brits often seem to as well. They want to control the heart of the Arab world, not leave it a hollow shell.
Which doesn't leave a lot of good options, does it? How about one of you clever folks tell me what I'm missing that would suddenly make everything fall into place?
starroute:ditto
We should focus all our combined psychic energy on a concept/word/narrative that has to be built upon
S-E-P-T-E-M-B-E-R-G-A-T-E
there you have. regardless of the micro-details, or if bush lihop or mihop.
frater plecticus
I disagree with the comment on the creation of Israel as a beachhead of euro culture. If anything the past several decades have seen a significant increase in the establishment of islamic culture into europe - both in terms of immigrant populations within euro countries, and the increased interaction of islamic states /regions with euro states - e.g. Kosovo or Turkey.
However complex it looks, I still think there is more to it than a scuffle in the middle east over 'ownership' of possible client state. And whatever equation the US happens to be working on at any given time - one of the variables must always be China.
lastly to Tank and CERTAIN other anonymice: your handlers have you misprofiled (my $.02 in case any of my tax dollars are at stake)"
Just to clarify... this guy feels confortable coming to the conclusion that anyone believing that the Iraqi insurgency is not fictional must be a government agent paid to think that rather than just any random fucker who has heard of Iraq's religious sects in the past 20 years.... or the general worldwide vide towards occupations throughout history.
Unfortunately in the "identify someone as something because of what they posted" game this disqualifies you as taxpayer either on the grounds you are in a mental instituion, explaining why you haven't been able to read a newspaper in the past 20 years or simply as someone just too retarded to hold a paying job.
It's OK, Tank. It's OK.
We know your just doing your job. But if you want to keep it, you'll need to be a bit more subtle - especially round here.
Explain how that works. You nimrods are able to completely ignore bombings, mortar and RPG attacks but some words on a page referring you to these will need to be subtle ?
There is nothing subtle about electroshock therapy. This of course being a last resort treatment for people detatched from reality. I don't think anyone would argue that being in denial about the existance of the Iraq insurgency in 2005 would qualify.
Starroute
This is what you're missing: while it is true that the preferred outcome for the US would be an Iraq modelled on old West Germany or Japan, and that this was undoubtedly what some of the key decision-makers had in mind when they made plans to invade, that is not where Iraq is headed nor would be headed even if there was no insurgency.
What we are seeing is rather a new political elite emerging that consist of Sh'ites groomed by the mullahs of Iran since the 1980s for just this eventuality. The SCRI, the Da'wa party. These people have seized control of the new Iraqi government, which has already become very cozy with Iran. These people don't like the US at all, and they are not going to be "happy to be part of the US economic sphere". But they have been elected, semi-democratically, and after all the talk of spreading democracy etc, the US has no choice but to let them do as they please. Installing Ahmed Chalabi is not an option at this stage.
If the security situation improves, the Iraqi government is likely to tell the US to get out. Then, the neocons will have achieved nothing but empowering Iran and by extension China and Russia, while weakening the US. That was probably not their intention (they had probably planned to be in Iran by now anyway).
See why they need to keep a certain pressure on the government in Baghdad?
I also find it interesting that these two Brits were firing at a police station and at police officers. The Iraqi police has become the favourite target of the insurgents, even more so, it seems, than US forces. One could almost suspect that the insurgents want to make sure that the Iraqi government is unable to provide for its own security, thus remaining dependent on the US...
Tank: You are quite right, denying the existence of a vast, home-grown insurgency in Iraq, directed at the occupying forces and their collaborators, is to be detached from reality. That doesn't mean that the occupiers aren't trying to steer the popular uprising in a certain direction, specifically towards sectarian violence, to prevent the formation of a unified resistance against US/UK occupation and to keep up the pressure on the pro-Iranian government.
Finally, I have to concur with those who have pointed out that disagreeing with a poster does not automatically make one a CIA operative. Frankly, I doubt the CIA et al. are sufficiently concerned by what is written on Rigorous Intuition to bother to post comments here :-)
Nimrods? WTF?
Tank you come off as the worst kind of John Wayne yank, the typical loud-mouthed swaggering cowboy randomly inflicting all of us with your insipid comments. You are definitely not humbling yourself to the environment and opening your mind to the discourse. Instead you jump up and boisterously scream out rhetorical rants that you've picked up off of some network parrot, or U.S. News & World Report.
No one else is storming in here with guns drawn blazing wildly, and arrogantly casting aspersions on everyone. Get some cognizant information and organize it into coherent statements or questions to challenge other people's posts. If you've sold your soul to the system and it's propaganda, that's your business. Emotional and hysterical outbursts are best kept deep inside if you feel compelled to run it up a flagpole and demand people to salute.
Part of the problem is anyone who dares disagree with the prevailing attitude in these comments is labeled a disinfo agent or worse.
It's possible that Tank just has looked at the evidence and come to a different conclusion. He's obnoxious in stating that conclusion, but others who have not been so have been treated the same way on previous posts.
Perhaps we should just all chill and if Tank acts like a troll, just ignore him. If Tank has something to say, then debate him. Discouraging dissenting opinions simply because the diverge from yours is not the way to handle it.
Clearly a false flag operation. The official line just does not stack up, how can it? British forces run basra, so why are they breaking into a Police station with Tanks?
The official spin on events is BS. That is obvious.
It is obvious to me that the US/UK want civil war - anything is better than IRAQ/IRAN making friends and quoting OIL in a basket of currencies. Anything is better than that.
So if that is the case - how on earth are BUSH/BLAIR going to sell failure in Iraq? How can they do it?
We didnt find WMD, we didnt find WMD manufacturing facilities, we didnt find plans to build WMD manufacturing facilities, we found no link to Bin Laden or 911, we can't pin any of this directly on Iran or Syria and the peace is lost and Iraq is failure.
So how on earth are they going to sell it? It beggars belief.
I guess they will muddle through controlling the media as much as possible and hopefully will get the Government they want.
My guess is a wider war with Iran is on the cards for both tactical (distraction) and strategic (oil).
have you ever seen a bullfight? of course you have, but did you get the message? all flags are false. that's what flags are for. they say "look at me!" why? so we're not looking at something else. behind every manufactured "nation" is THE STATE. it divides itself in order to hide. nations are arms of the beast, and each arm waves its own flag furiously so you don't notice the head. talking about america wants this, and israel did that, etc, is ultimately useless. you're chasing fabric.
understand this: ALL nations are evil. despite appearances to the contrary, they are completely unified in their desire to exist at our expense. we are being farmed, enslaved, killed for sport, and eaten. argue this and get everything you deserve.
I've been reading Rigorous Intuition for about two weeks and I absolutely love it because of the open-minded atmosphere of both Jeff(keep up the great work) and it's readers. Which is why it drives me crazy to see these snide accusations of dissenters being disinfo agents. Maybe some posters are paid disinfo agents, but childish accusations only reflect badly on the accuser. Perhaps some of those who disagree actually do disagree for their own reasons, and addressing them with insults is NOT a good way of dealing with them.
Why not address their points logically and rigorously, showing where they are in error and where they are using disinfo tactics.
I suspect people calling others disinfo agents are in fact disinfo agents themselves. Oh shit, I guess by definition I'm a disinfo agent. Better go get my paycheck!
R
Jeff: This is an amazing story because it provides incontrovertible proof that the British were engaging in a false flag operation and got caught red handed. How long before this disappears down the mainstream media memory hole? Kurt Nimmo has a brief history of other similar false flag operations by the British, including Kenya, Malaya and Northern Ireland that is worth a look.
It would be naive to assume that the Americans weren't doing exactly the same sort of thing with their P2OG forces, providing a steady diet of "al Quaida" or "al Zarquawi" atrocities to keep fuelling the military industrial machine.
The other issue that this episode raises is: whatever happended to the transfer of "sovereignty" last year when the Iraqi Police arrest two men acting unlawfully and they are immediately busted out of jail by occupying troops?
And why? To fuel the tensions to attack IRAN next.
This might be somewhat off-topic, but take a look at this article from a British newspaper's website about another British scandal around a "New Labor" MP whose diary-turned book is causing a stir, especially from Blair and company:
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=362725&in_page_id=1770&in_a_source=&ct=5
Something for you all to think about: Are there "trigger" words or phrases, sometimes referred to as a "honeywords", that attract trolls when used in the text of this site or the Discussion Board?
I first starting getting this suspicion while reading another site some months ago. Now, when encountering trolls, I try to determine as specifically as I can, what is being discussed.
qutb -
On the whole I'd agree with you -- except that there were also some weird, destabilizing events going on at a very early point of the occupation. Attacks on, I think, the Jordanian embassy and the UN mission, plus a few lesser incidents helped drive out anyone who could have been a stabilizing force and make the country ungovernable. Where did those come from?
And there are also those recent attacks on doctors and other professionals that seem designed to drive the entire educated class out of Iraq. Those don't even seem to be meant to incite a civil war, but rather to hollow out the country entirely.
To whose benefit is that?
carlos -
What you say about all nations being evil would be fine if we were here discussing gnostic philosophy, but it doesn't answer the question of whodunnit. It's like those Agatha Christie mysteries I could never stand reading because all the characters were presented as despicable enough to be potential murderers. If everyone is equally corrupt, it kinds of paralyzes any possibility of meaningful action.
If I've got to be a mouse on the battlefield, I'd at least like to know who the armies are, and what they're fighting for, and what their tactics are so that I could maybe have some hope of staying out from under the hooves of the horses.
I saw and heard this story beaking on BBC World TV and they mentioned arab dress (at least once - I had work to do so only saw it once. I remember it well because I blurted it out when my wife arrived.
A very brief break in the facade I must say. But revealed none the less. Too bad I can't record all the media all the time for back reference. I saw and heard it.
PS I like how we're now directed to images and spin about the London bombings - apparently we are privy to their dry run. Luckily the authorities uncovered this additional proof on the very day that a distraction from the script was exposed.
Who is working whom?
Solemn Vigilance said... "You are definitely not humbling yourself to the environment and opening your mind to the discourse."
We are posting in a thread about post-Saddam Iraq. I don't know what discourse you think is possible on that topic which on the basis that the Iraq insurgency does not exist but lets assume
Instead you jump up and boisterously scream out rhetorical rants that you've picked up off of some network parrot, or U.S. News & World Report.
As opposed to what ? Burning books because they try to trick you into believing that what every person on the planet has agreed on for the past 20 years... that a post-Saddam Iraq would descend into persecution of Sunnis, religious factional infighting and eventually civil war?
No one else is storming in here with guns drawn blazing wildly, and arrogantly casting aspersions on everyone.
Which is why I singled out those two people who were doing just that.
The italics text were the quotes if you didn't get that on your own.
If you've sold your soul to the system and it's propaganda, that's your business. Emotional and hysterical outbursts are best kept deep inside if you feel compelled to run it up a flagpole and demand people to salute.
Yeah whatever chump. Everything I know is based on propaganda... blah blah blah.
Tell you what, just for once why don't you provide me with one of your secret non-propaganda sources which uses multiple sources to discredit what I wrote. That there is such a thing as the Iraq insurgency.
Shouldn't be too hard right ?
Monkey McGee said...
Perhaps we should just all chill and if Tank acts like a troll, just ignore him. If Tank has something to say, then debate him. Discouraging dissenting opinions simply because the diverge from yours is not the way to handle it.
Which when you consider that I do not exist beyond the arguement I make on a page is just downright logical.
So here is a debate for you all. Why does military personnel being undercover imply they are running a false flag operation rather than just... wel.. working undercover ?
Nobody thinks cops are trying to promote a myth that drug dealers exist when they work undercover so why the huge jump here ?
There is no shortage of reminders that direct military force on states is not the way to win a war against terrorist networks, or that the most valuable asset in fighting these in all arenas is human intelligence.
Personally I would find it outrageous if forces in Iraq were not undertaking surveillence and developing assets while disguised to allow them to more easily operate.
So if this incident had not occurred, I would suggest that if any of you would have found it a shocking revelation that armed forces were operating in disguise then you really do not have enough perspective on warfare or intelligence to be drawing any conclusions in the first place.
starroute, not even a bull, but a mouse. best of luck. (i really mean that, in some ways you remind me of me.) i, however, am a virus, not afraid. i'm bringing them all down, just like a virus does, indiscriminately.
my solution to your agatha christie dilemma is to infect every suspect. there's some meaningful action for you. we have the numbers to pull it off and the state knows this.
sorry to fuck up your spectator sport, but the state's time is up. put your head down and run for the woods, little mouse. the only thing that might crush you is its collapsing corpse.
(and a little gnostic philosophy wouldn't go astray amidst the civil war that this thread has become. i think it's hilarious that so many posters have succumbed to the very strategy that jeff's post exposes. olé!)
another source for the explosives and MINES in the car can be found here.
http://tinyurl.com/9kj33
I would be very concerned though because these reporters aren't white westerners and so they may be slanting their story to make it appear that we of the west might be not as nice as TV tells us we are.
Hey Tank,
My theory is they probably weren't really SAS, just posers from Hal Mercs.
The desired end result from the purchaser is the same.
There now...SAS rep is still preserved.
Since Rumfeld's Hal Merc's are readily available for a price
Who's buying?
The end result for the citizen's of Iraq are the same.
Kind of like the Mexicans going into New Orleans, huh?
for those like starroute, plectic, and Qutb who are interested in discussing ideas, i keep mulling over this type of macro-currency-level analysis:
(rough version ;)-
currencies are a technology that lend themselves to a pyramid shaped structure of control. commodities as well as volume and velocity of exchange represent the underlying value of any given currency. in a fiat currency environment (e.g., current one), the currency that is used for the largest volume and velocity of commodities (e.g., oil, street drugs/pharma, interest bearing financial instruments) will be the most powerful. benefits accrue to the entities who hold/wield the dominant currency (e.g., the us treasury can sustain higher deficits and can buy oil on credit while china's central bank has to use its more restricted credit limit to exchange yuan for $ and then buy oil). oil(1) ends up being the linchpin in the iron triangle of (2)currency value and (3)military-backed corporate control of oil (but also the other major commodities).
so, one reason the us (or more broadly, holders of long positions in $) disapproved of both noriega and saddam is that they tried to re-nationalise the profits (pass through *their* national banks instead of those on wall st.) from their major commodities; oil and drugs respectively. those with long positions in $s are betting on the prowess of the us military to continue to secure oil/energy resources for corporations that are financed in $.
if the euro or some basket of currencies becomes the denominating unit(s) for oil, investors will begin shorting the $ (betting against its future value), inflation will heat up, and those left holding $s and not diversified into other currencies or things like precious metals…will suffer a relative loss in purchasing ability.
it seems the neocons are committed to keeping this status quo or making the $ the only currency (though it is already the linchpin among all major treasuries). other players would either like to see their own currency chosen or some sort of basket currency approach (thereby spreading military and banking power “more broadly”, in one sense but not in others, and prompting the question among some of them: why not create a global currency to avoid friction?).
honest question then: is this a big conspiracy network tightly controlled by only a few "smoking men" and their hedge funds or is the "conspiracy", at this level of analysis, too diffuse with complicity spread amongst everyone trying to hoard and earn interest in $s (and all other vested currencies), with massive debt, or using petrochemicals? Is graft to blame? those using a local currency (see Ithaca Hours) or those who make use of some sort of urban or rural intentional community have experienced a withdrawal from this network that actually makes their goods & labor more valuable (more purchasing power) because of the inherent efficiency in non-interest-earning currencies or systems of trade.
discussions about these issues happen in publicly available policy papers and places like the london school of economics but the consensus in these arenas favors the benignly-broad complicity model. at what level do ends justify means? do sheeple want to understand these things? would mob mentality and scapegoating develop and would those who always do step in and promise to start a "war" against something on behalf of “the people”?
sorry this is so long…
resources i like (web resources and audio):
search “peter dale scott” ,“wizards of money”, and/or “ithaca hours”
anonymous said...
Very possible
however...
Israel has not gained a single thing since Bush has been in office.
U.S. Assistance to Israel
(FY1949 - FY2005)
(millions of dollars)
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/U.S._Assistance_to_Israel1.html
Neither Sharon nor Netenyahu are innocents(ce) though the general Israeli population may be...
similar to any other countries' civilian population.
although I am somewhat intrigued by your innocence...
"I'm rather curious as to why everyone always assumes Israel is the puppet master here?"
and btw,
this is my favorite blog of this variety and by speaking of currency dynamics i only hope to offer what are taken to be complimentary ideas to the incisive reasoning that this blog seems devoted to.
Hey Tank,
My theory is they probably weren't really SAS, just posers from Hal Mercs.
The desired end result from the purchaser is the same.
There now...SAS rep is still preserved.
Since Rumfeld's Hal Merc's are readily available for a price
Who's buying?
The end result for the citizen's of Iraq are the same.
Kind of like the Mexicans going into New Orleans, huh?
I would be very concerned though because these reporters aren't white westerners and so they may be slanting their story to make it appear that we of the west might be not as nice as TV tells us we are.
If there is any exaggerated information I would expect that to come from the source rather than the media. For instance the reports of 150 prisoners escaping are more likely an bad guess by a source based on something rather than an invention by the media based on nothing.
Either the UK Independant/Telegraph has reported that the UK military was staking out the police who approached and apprehended them. These police were also the source of the reports and photographs of what was found in the car.
They are also the same police operating as death squads in Basra.
Hey they abduct and kill western journalists for writing about the other people they abduct and kill... but they wouldn't lie about the same military forces they openly oppose right ? Just like US forces never lie about terrorists right ?
A little perspective.
Report:The soldiers had been beaten and rogue policemen had been touring the area with loudhailers urging demonstrators on to the streets to protest that the “British saboteurs” had been planning explosions in the city which would be blamed on followers of Moqtada al-Sadr, the Shia cleric.
...
The two soldiers are believed to have been investigating a corrupt police unit in Basra who were colluding with Shia militia leaders. Some of the men who later interrogated them are believed to be part of this same unit.
Times Online
Just a reminder that in Basra, UK military forces shooting at the Shia police forces isn't the opposite of UK forces shooting at insurgents.
Basra death squads
if anyone needs a ready reference for how the sas/intel ops persecute a 'dirty war' grab the excellent book 'big boys rules' by mark urban which lays bare most of the methodology of the war against the IRA in nthn ireland. you'll find many points of similarity with this case, and others, and find a good basis for questioning the reality or otherwise of insurgency.
stakeknife, anyone?
Re: "honeywords":
The government certainly has the ability to track the blogs that they are concerned about for specific words, frequency of words, etc. Maybe when they get so many 'hits' they send in the trolls (cue Judy Collins ;) ).
Let me make it clear I don't think it of this site, but some sites are "honeypots" designed to attract dissenters and monitor what they say. On those sites, the task is a fine balance of not being so suppressive as to arouse suspicion yet to make sure certain avenues of thought are not, well, thought out to their ultimate conclusions.
Certain people who insist on pursuing a line of thought then are targeted with an eye to discrediting them. I saw this on dKos when right after the bombing a surprisingly large number of people immediately jumped to the conclusions it was an inside job...something that this very story and the 'bomber reconnaissance' story support. Kos (who is former military...or maybe military intelligence, who knows) immediately made a purge (his own word) of not only 'diaries' that took this view but people who recommended those diaries! The ostensible reason, not to make the site look bad with flaky speculation. Hmm. So cut off inquiry before you know whether it's flaky speculation or reasonable suspicion?
In addition to getting certain people discredited, or driven to leave the site, or banned, the other major tactic is to look for groups of people who work synergistically together to pursue a subject, and get them to turn against each other. Sorry to pick on Kos again, but any of you who post there may recall the great "Pie Fight" battle several months ago. Kos bought an ad that some women posters called sexist, and suddenly the entire blog erupted, e