Tuesday, November 08, 2005

In the Colosseum



There's no cause to taint the sweetest taste of blood
And greetings from the nation
As we shake the hands of time they're taking their ovations - Tom Waits

I haven't wanted to think about John Kerry - like, ever again - but his flat denial last Friday of having admitted the election was stolen is now stuck in my head like that image above of Poppy Bush and his amazing technocratic dreamcoat. (And just so you know, I did paste Kerry's head in the picture, but I didn't do a thing to the jacket.)

Kerry's sister Peggy invited author Mark Crispin Miller to a fundraiser for the expressed purpose of pressing a copy of Fooled Again into the hands of the Janus-faced Bonesman. "You were robbed, Senator," said Miller, and Kerry replied he knew it, and with a "gesture of extreme frustration" described how the issue wasn't finding traction with colleagues on the Hill. (He said he'd recently argued with Chris Dodd about electronic voting, who held "there's nothing there.") The likelihood of his spearheading a Senate investigation into 2004 was doubtful, said Kerry, because of the "sour grapes" factor. Then, I expect, Kerry took his glad hand elsewhere, and didn't give his remarks another thought until his office needed to retract them:

I know Mr. Miller is trying to sell his book and he feels passionately about his thesis but his recent statements about his conversation with Senator Kerry are simply not true.... Make no mistake, after pouring his heart and soul into the campaign and seeing George Bush continue the mess he created, if the election had been stolen John Kerry would be fighting them today to reverse the outcome.

I don't know if Miller really expected Kerry to publicly stand by his private words, though I'm sure Kerry never expected to be called on them. Miller isn't a fabulist; the conversation happened, and good for him to stand against the slander of Kerry's people to report it. (By the way, who can imagine Kerry fighting quixotically and supra-constitutionally today to reverse the outcome, when he capitulated before the outcome of the tainted election was even known?)

But of course, what could Kerry say? If he knows the general election was stolen, then he should also know his peculiar ascension in the primaries cannot be attributed to charisma and dumb luck. He should, but he probably doesn't, because without the ego that could blind him to such a self-evident truth he would never have risen to such a place of utility within America's equestrian class.

You know, it's often fun, and sometimes even appropriate, to try on historical periods, and see how they fit our weird times. And there's more than just the Is it 1939 yet? Nazi comparisons. The Roman Empire is an old favourite for students of America, and it's a good one, too. After all, history repeats, but not necessarily in chronological order.

Roman senators in the early empire still conducted business as though they were governing a republic. The emperors indulged them. Following Augustus, who remembered what the Senate did to the dictator Caesar, the emperor affected humility, and called himself Princeps: "First Citizen."

American presidents will always be presidents, even now, after Americans have stopped electing them. And Americans will still be told anyone can grow up to be one, when even those who win the office are not allowed to take it.

Senators have their fictions, too. Senators, Roman and American, serve at the pleasure of the imperial machine, but to exercise their power within its limits they have to act as though the machinery doesn't exist. Americans of all privileged classes - and these days, let's call that anyone with shelter and food - participate in the fraud by exercising their right of disbelief.

Judging by reactions when the pre-retraction story broke last Friday on Democratic boards, it appears a lot of people are still waiting for Kerry. Waiting for somebody. When they don't come - when they say they're on their way, and never arrive - what happens next? John Lennon sang, "There ain't no Jesus gonna come from the sky / Now that I found out I know I can cry."

Many people have done much crying for America. But I'm just wondering, what comes after after that?

94 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

There's always the "meet the new boss, just like the old boss" trope to encourage a healthy cynicism, but there's also human miracles like Mandela and Chavez who make hoping for a better way more than an idle dream.

Kerry, though ... did anyone, ever, hope for anything from him? Yes, I suppose we did, but not much, and our disappointment is consequently not too hard to take.

(Nice to see Poppy embracing someone out of single figures who isn't his wife, by the way.)

Anonymous Pants Elk

5:56 AM  
Anonymous Paul said...

Kerry was just an understudy. Anything can happen in the crazy world we live in, George could've overdosed on the pretzels on the night of the debates, for instance. The show has to go on in the face of these inconveniences. It pays to have back up.

6:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous One,just think if the MSM didn't have Deans scream dream to beat him out of the race.I'm sure they would have made up something else.And this does feel a little like 1939,it took the masters of Magick a while to get the people to dance with the devil.This sad world is right back at that same spot it always ends up in before it falls apart only this time is the last,later.

6:54 AM  
Blogger procrasta nation said...

"But I'm just wondering, what comes after after that?"

Hopefully, America & the rest of us snap out of the mopey inwardness we have settled into after having spent years decoding the imminent end of the world. False-hopers like Kerry just add to the depression and apathy if you are looking for a reason to not participate.

The good news is that although we might still look up for someone else to straighten things out (out of habit), we have ways of communicating and co-ordinating that bypass the need for figurehead leaders.

6:58 AM  
Anonymous marykmusic said...

I understand that Kerry manipulated votes in the primaries... so of course he wasn't going to make a stink about it.

But I also remember hearing that "he made a stink" about the whole thing, probably right before "they" reminded him that he was only playing the role... --MaryK

8:27 AM  
Anonymous Justice Inc. said...

Anonymous 5:56 said:
"There's always the "meet the new boss, just like the old boss" trope to encourage a healthy cynicism, but there's also human miracles like Mandela and Chavez who make hoping for a better way more than an idle dream."

Sorry to tell you this, but Nelson Mandela and the ANC were bought and paid for by the Rockefellers, Oppenheimers and DeBeers. Same thing for that preening jackass Desmond "Can't we all just get along" Tutu. They funded and built them up to put down the legitimate freedom aspirations and nationalism of Steve Biko and Zephaniah Mothopeng of the PAC (Pan African Congress). Can't have the indigenous residents controlling their own country and it's resources you know. Not to mention throwing the Nazi loving Boer parasites out on their collective asses. No Nuremburg trials here, how 'bout a warm and fuzzy Reconcilliation Trial to mock your pain and gloss over calculated genocide?

Hugo Chavez is great and seems like the real thing for now, he's like Patrice Lumumba reincarnated. He definitely knows how to fight the enemies of his people on a number of critical levels--economically, politically and wherever he sees their weaknesses. I'd wager he must be a student of Sun Tzu's "The Art of War" and Che Guevara. For the scumbag cabals he is a huge priority to pay off, assassinate or politicallly neutralize. He's definitely throwing a monkeywrench into their program there.

As for Kerry and Bush, it doesn't matter who the hell they install. He's still just the store manager. I don't care if they put a cat in a bow tie and top hat as president, it still works the same way. The resurrection of their precious Reich will continue unabated and pathetically unchallenged.

8:28 AM  
Anonymous tmb said...

This column, and other postings on progressive/"left" sites, bemoaning why a leader does not appear to oppose those in power in this country has a short answer - - those that do wind up dead. The question itself always reminds me of a conversation I had with the late William Kunstler, the civil rights attorney, around 1982. At the time I was a second year law student and had left West Point during my second year due to a severe knee injury. I was no lefty commie type, as they say.

Kunstler gave a short talk at the law school on some civil rights matter as an invited "lunch" speaker and there was a private reception in the evening. He was elaborating to a small group of us the evidence showing the murder of MLK as a government/intelligence agency planned murder (we all know about this today,at least those who read this site, I hope . . .). He stated that any effective, charismatic, young leader organizing people effectively against those in power would be targeted and either discredited or murdered. He described the people in power as so nasty, that "they'd bottle the air and force you to buy it if they could" -- (I always remembered that one . . .as I grow older I have come to agree w/his statement as not hyperbole but as a literal statement of fact as to the nature of these "people"). I was somewhat startled, but I had been reading alot of what had been coming out on the CIA's activities (esp. a book called "War On The Mind" now out of print and impossible to get) so I knew that such measures were happening in other countries. I asked him why then he had not been murdered. He told me he was too old, that it is the younger leaders that they worry about, who they research, follow, and target - - those who have the charisma to draw a following to their "radical" ideas in opposition to what those who consider they "own the country" consider should be on the table for discussion - - our Masters, if you will.

The murders "by the Klan" in Greensboro, NC had occurred in the recent past and he pointed out that this had been a set up by the police who convinced the victims to be unarmed and only the most effective leaders were actively hunted down among the crowd and were clearly targets for assassination. (In retrospect where no one was held criminally responsible for these murders, which were committed on video, and in light of other information that has come to light I would have to agree there is strong support as to a conspiracy here. Check out this site for some basic information and links to the murder video and as to the backgrounds of those who were targeted for murder: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_Massacre.

To cut this short, my point is that when I hear someone on the progressive side say "where are our leaders", my response is "go ask Martin Luther King, Robert Kennedy, John Kennedy, John Lennon, Dewey Hampton, . . ." - - you provide the name of the victim who opposed our "elite" class and who also either had or was starting to have a following. People like John Kerry are not stupid, in fact he's part of the team (his prosecution of Green Beret Bill Tyree for "killing his wife" who was murdered after Tyree's threats to reveal intelligence agency drug running comes to mind, see http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/feature_article_listing.htm)- - Kerry's not opposed to them, he's Skull & Bones which by definition "is them". (Out of the country we know Hugo Chavez is opposed to them and everyday I pick up the paper wondering if they will have been successful this time in "removing" him). In this country both the right and "left" information sources are funded by in large part by the same people (this has historically been shown to be a fact w/funding by Rockefeller sources to the Atlantic Monthly etc.) and the "left", and what is allowed to be on the agenda of the "left" is thus controlled. (Worldwide Anthony Sutton proved these same people funded both the Soviet Communists and the Nazis in Germany and control things worldwide w/a Hegelian Dialectic approach that prompts mass murder at what is deemed "appropriate" historical time periods . . . When a leader steps out of what the "controlled left" is allowed as an agenda that leader becomes a target of the intelligence agencies (this is my informed opinion today, and why I believe such people as Noam Chomsky et al take the position of the lone nut on the JFK, RFK, MLK murders)and is destroyed in one way or another. So when I hear naive voices stating where are "our leaders" . . . wake up. Great posting as usual Jeff . . .

8:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does anyone have any thoughts on the HBO series "Rome" and it's relavence to modern America?

IMO, it has a lot to say about the state of things and the possible outcomes of certain decisions(or lack thereof) on the part of the citizenry.

Any of you "big brains" got a few fifty-cent phrases for that one?

:-)

9:18 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

um, who is Dewey Hampton? I can't find him on WIKipedia, Yahoo, or google.

and a bit off topic, but the media is suprised by Libby's filthy mind:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051107/pl_nm/libby_dc_1

9:28 AM  
Anonymous tmb said...

Sorry, Dewey, I believe was his nickname. His name was Fred Hampton,Sr. and this site provides some information on his assassination by the government: http://www.providence.edu/afro/students/panther/hamptonsr.html

9:35 AM  
Anonymous same anonymous from above said...

a more apt metaphor for america today would be nazi germany, but "Rome" is much safer, and it still works. ABC had a series during the summer called "Empire" (a blatant ripoff of Gladiator, in some respects), but analogy was easy to detect. Ceasar Augustus was a pawn who wanted an Roman Empire (Bush). Mark Antony tried to overthrow him (JFK/military-industrial complex), but Mark Antony was defeated (happy ending for us?)

9:35 AM  
Blogger daveskeep said...

The question was asked "Where are all of the great leaders?" Perhaps a better question would be "Why are we sitting around waiting for a leader in the first place?"

It seems to me that we are playing the role of passives. People on both the so called "left" and "right" keep waiting for the "right government" or the "right candidate". "If we could just electe so and so, then things would be different."

Why do we need to wait for "so and so" in order to make things right? Can't we do that ourselves? Gandhi once said that we need to become the change we wish to see. In other words, it's up to us. The problem with American society is that we expect people to do almost everything for us. The government needs to "protect" us, the government needs to provide health care, the government this, the government that.

I'm sorry, but nothing is going to change sitting around waiting for some "savior" to appear. We have to turn off "Desperate Housewives" and go do something positive. Start locally, because that is where you can have the most impact, in your own communities.

Then you won't have to look to some monarch sitting in his big white house to take care of business.

Now wouldn't that be something?

9:47 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Justice Inc wrote: "Sorry to tell you this, but Nelson Mandela and the ANC were bought and paid for by the Rockefellers, Oppenheimers and DeBeers."

Well, this is news to me (which doesn't mean it's not true), and may well have been news to Mandela during his twenty-seven-odd years in prison, much of that in solitary confinement. Are you suggesting it took this long for him to pocket the Rockefeller dollar? Or what?

References, please (other than Henry Makow).

10:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I knw this is frivolous but in my world you'd get 12 years for wearing that jacket alone.

10:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kerry played the role in order to intentionally both sucker in and demoralize the naive left into believing that the system still works. The Collier brothers in the early 1980s exposed the rigging of the plotical machine with their 'Vote Fraud' series, yet the mighty wurlitzer drowned this information out.

The irony is that the Greens and the Libertarians were the last ones who fought for the old American ideals after the 2004 election, and they were least likely to be contenders for the top office. Why? Because they represent the people, as opposed to the republicrats who represent the elites and the ruling class.

This country hasn't been a real republic since the days of Woodrow wilson and the Federal Reserve. Just like Machiavelli dictated, the old insitutions have retained their window dressing while their character has been fundamentally subverted.

The reason for this is that there are still too many gun owners in this country who might organize themselves against the regime if their little fairy tale was taken away from them. This is why New Orleans served as a test case for the disarmamant of the American people, because the more private arms, the freer the society. And the elites abhor a free society.

10:36 AM  
Anonymous Pissed Off American said...

What did you expect? Kerry's balls are hanging in Kenneth Blackwell's office. On every issue Kerry has shown a remarkable cowardice for someone that is supposed to be a member of the "democratic leadership." Personally, I think the mewling coward was a ringer, DESIGNED and INTENDED to loose the election. There was such blatant and obvious tampering with the vote in Ohio that a true patriotic statesman would have stood up for his supporters and our country, but instead the insipid ass gave an early concession and ran home to Theresa and her money. Since then, all he has managed to do is utter the occassional squeek. But hey, thats understandable, its hard to sound macho after selling your balls to the highest bidder.

10:38 AM  
Blogger Jeff said...

Yes, please support that "Mandela and Tutu were stooges of the Rockefellers" allegation.

It seems to me that it is commonly the more nationalist and nativist elements of an opposition that are likely to be exploited and played by oppressors to divide a populace against itself. In South Africa that was role was played by Inkatha and Mangosuthu Buthelezi.

I don't think Truth and Reconcilliation was "warm and fuzzy." It was a hard and wise path to take to break the cycle of violence.

10:46 AM  
Blogger Brook said...

i wrote a hot, angry screed as all this mess was unfolding this weekend. i dug up some board links "whispering" about how the post-election Kerry insiders weren't going to touch the fraud issue. this isn't the first time i've written about those "whispers."

but today is the first time i've seen the matter thru the FOG. omg -- it's so obvious. dean should've been the candidate. the DLC couldn't allow it. that's why the smothering of the election fraud biz on those "democratic boards."

like me, they might not grok the whole picture themselves. but shit, when the light goes on -- it cauterizes the open wounds.

of course THEY can't "go after" this issue. it's so obvious.

11:06 AM  
Blogger daveskeep said...

Jeff,

Well said on the truth and reconciliation. I happen to think it was the wise course of action and it probably should have been done in Iraq as well.

I'm am taken aback by the allegations that Mandela and Tutu are Rockefeller stooges. I think proof is required here in order to be convicing.

11:50 AM  
Anonymous Phil (Weben Hadd) Toler said...

Jeff,

Another golden post, my man. Since it is going on 15 years since the newly crowned “King of Gaud” announced that the NWO was a fait acompli, it has long since been all over but the crying. Those of us who have been doing the crying have turned edgy and are now “America Haters”, though in truth we only hate what America has become. The stunning thing is every column I write for Axis of Logic could easily be peppered with quotes from the many grave spinners warning specifically that their handiwork, the Declaration and Constitution, required constant vigilance in order to survive. But, like the Geneva Conventions, their concerns are merely “quaint” to the zealots who have seized control of the ship of state.

The real difference between the “equestrian class”, as you so elegantly put it, and the rest of us is that they think in centuries while us working class slobs do well to see beyond the next beer. It is the same instinct that is bred and burned into every royal scion that ever lived, and since the American Republic suffered a fatal blow with the onset of the Civil War, the monarchal dream has been restored. From King George, to President George and back to a pair of King Georges, Irony has laid her hands on the American Experiment and pronounced it DOA.

Nice photoshop job, dude — was that Clinton originally?

12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jeff, I'm also curious who you pasted Kerry's head onto.

And, I was also astonished at the claim that Mandela and Tutu are sell-outs to the powers-that-be. The Truth and Reconciliation hearings struck me as so incredibly evolved -- impressive beyond belief, actually, that in this day and age people would swallow their pride and their hatred in order to break the cycle of violence. Seeing Mandela freed from prison brought tears to my eyes.

-- manxkat

12:42 PM  
Anonymous Avalon said...

Jeff, you've got to replace that image of 41 and a photoshopped Kerry, and replace it NOW.

RIGHT NOW.

It is not an obvious fabrication, and even with a caption underneath rather than buried in the narrative text it wouldn't be clear enough that it is a fabricated illustration rather than the truth.

We talk all the time about how the bad guys know that if they can get you to believe their images it doesn't matter what words they say.

You're presenting a lie with that picture, a lie that many of your readers would be happy to accept as true. But it is just not acceptable.

You've got to do something creative with GHWB's coat though -- that falls into the Evil Clown category for sure.

12:50 PM  
Anonymous Justice Inc. said...

I think it's funny that there's info on this very blog that talks of how the elite have funded or manipulated prominent Left, moderate or oppositional groups. But fail to make the connections that this occurs around the world as part of the honeypot/divide & conquer strategem.

I stand by my statements and will have to dig through my yellowing international news clippings to obtain the demanded proof. If anyone would like to assist, since it's so imperitive, I would appreciate the effort since it educates us all.

I don't have time right now (being at work) to dig through the waning resources of the internet to derive immediate proof. I will tell you that I heard this directly from members of the PAC and ANC before seeing further proof in print. Give me a wee bit of time, and I'll get it. I thought this was common knowledge?

And I'm sorry Jeff but the TRC (Truth and Reconcilliation Trials) were utter bullshit contrived to provide absolution to terrorists, thieves, murderers and monsters. Scumbags like Dr. Death (Wouter Basson) who was working on ethno-specific bio-warfare components for genocide. The TRC was also brought to dissipate peoples outrage and cries for justice and nation. None of the major players have, or will ever be brought to task, for their documented abuses and horrific crimes. Take a closer look.

1:08 PM  
Blogger Old Gary said...

I find it odd that evil Nazis always seem to creep into this blog and the readers' comments while giving Communism a pass. If the so-called moneyed elites control everything and use opposing politial parties to distract humanity, why such an exclusive fuss over the Nazis? Aren't Nazis and Communists simply a mirror image of each other? I've read that 20-30 million died as a direct result of Nazism while 100 million can be attributed to Communism.

1:33 PM  
Anonymous tal said...

At the end of the day, we believe whatever we want/need to believe You can start with these:


South Africa: Judge exonerates Dr. Death

The Truth and Reconciliation Commission report:
ANC paves the way for a travesty of justice

2:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Old Gary said:

"I find it odd that evil Nazis always seem to creep into this blog and the readers' comments while giving Communism a pass. If the so-called moneyed elites control everything and use opposing politial parties to distract humanity, why such an exclusive fuss over the Nazis? Aren't Nazis and Communists simply a mirror image of each other? I've read that 20-30 million died as a direct result of Nazism while 100 million can be attributed to Communism."

Ayn Rand refutes this whining thusly:

"It is obvious what the fraudulent issue of fascism versus communism accomplishes: it sets up, as opposites, two variants of the same political system... it switches the choice of "Freedom or dictatorship?" into "Which kind of dictatorship?"--thus establishing dictatorship as an inevitable fact and offering only a choice of rulers. The choice--according to the proponents of the fraud - is: a dictatorship of the rich (fascism) or a dictatorship of the poor (communism)."

For a recent example of the Rockefeller illuminists controlling the opposition, check out this expose on the staged conflict between La Raza and the Minutemen:

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/Commentary/RaceWar.htm

If you want to know who the elites really are and how they control both major political parties in the U.S., check out this article on the Council of Foreign Relations:

http://www.americandaily.com/article/10023

2:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That link to the fake fight between the Minute Men and La Raza is:

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/Commentary/RaceWar.htm

Sorry about the sloppy posting.

2:07 PM  
Blogger daveskeep said...

I guess we do decide to believe what we will, but the question is will you let that belief or ideology interfere with doing the right thing?

Far be it from me to disagree with WSWS as they are a pillar of journalistic integrity (note the sarcasm here), but the truth and reconciliation of SA was prudent and necessary in order for the nation to move forward with any semblence of normalcy.

That does not mean that the crimes of Aparteid should be ignored, quite the contrary, the comission's report is quite lengthy in its detail about what transpired.

Maybe I'm just a sucker for the teachings of Jesus, but I've always thought that forgiveness and reconciliation were signs of strength, not weakness.

Maybe I'm the crazy one for thinking that.

2:20 PM  
Blogger Lyle said...

Kerry Is Oldest News
They weren't even finished counting the votes yet when he caved. I saw John Edwards ready to fight and I also saw Kerry's wife there ready to kick his ass as soon as she got him alone. I would support Edwards again in a race. It's too early now to even look at saomeone before we see the outcome of the 2006 mid-term elections. I also wonder why they didn't pursue the Clint Curtis Affdavit which explained the distribution of the votes Kerry ran away from. "Reporting For Duty", my butt....

3:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Jeff, you're famous (well sort of)--Digby has a post up which mentions your friend Aquino's connections to the latest right wing hacks who are claiming on Fox news that Amb. Wilson disclosed his wife's covert status to them.

3:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Lysle,

I hate to break this to you, but Edwards is just as much of a good-old boy insider as Kerry and Bush are. He was selected as Kerry's running mate after making an 'impressive' speech at the international old boys club, also known as the Bilberberg Group in 2003. You can expect more wars, taxation and staged government terror if he were to get in office.

3:47 PM  
Anonymous starroute said...

Anonymous 3:42 said --

"Aquino's connections to the latest right wing hacks who are claiming on Fox news . . ."

Let me guess without looking -- would that be a reference to General Paul Vallely, special ops veteran, co-author with Aquino of "From PSYOP to MindWar: The Psychology of Victory," latter-day Fox News commenatator, and client of the Neocons' favorite PR firm, Benador Associates?

That would sure be not the least bit surprising.

4:04 PM  
Blogger Pete said...

The new HBO Rome series gives a faint taste of the brilliant expose written by Michael Parenti, "The Assassination of Julius Caesar." It's got slumlord senators, hit-squads, populist generals, land-reform, etc. Must Read! And if anyone's curious about the Kennedys' intractible entanglements with the Syndicate and their ambiguous fight with organized crime, check out "The Money and the Power." It's an invaluable, sweeping history of Las Vegas and the criminal networks we know so well.

Communists=Modernization
Fascists=Death to America
is it really so hard to see the difference?

4:38 PM  
Anonymous Watchful Citizen said...

A big reason for Kerry's rapid capitulation in November 2004 was that the US military was poised to annihilate Fallujah and waiting for the election to finish so it wouldn't upset our Fallow Merkins and Bush's re-stealing of the White House.

On today's Democracy Now show Amy Goodman had a US soldier who was in Fallujah confirming the use of napalm-like white phosphorus on that city's civilians, another US use of chemical weapons.

The former US soldier also said that they were poised to take Fallujay but told to do nothing until the US election was over.

So I think Kerry's excuse that he was the wrong one to out election fraud due the 'sour grapes' factor is cover for him conceding to military pressure to get it over with so they could destroy Fallujah.

That's a lot of pressure.

Covering up the US atrocities in Fallujah is something that unites the Dems and Repubs in complicity with war crimes.

Here's General Wesley Clark's Washington Post op-ed at the time explaining that "Winning in Fallujah is just the beginning." He's the next bogus 'Dem' to report for duty to the naive electorate unaware there is only The War Party.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47034-2004Nov12.html

4:51 PM  
Anonymous sunny said...

JEff
Finally, someone said it! Couldn't you just FEEL it? Kerry wasn't riding the Zeitgeist, Dean was. Oh, I know, he was crazy, but he was giving us some red meat, getting everybody all excited.
When Kerry started winning, I just KNEW it wasn't real , it was a crock. What a PERFECT insider fall guy for the PTB! We were given the one they wanted us to have.

4:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pete said:

"Communists=Modernization
Fascists=Death to America
is it really so hard to see the difference?"

Pete, where exactly did you learn history? Did you never hear about the liquidation of the Kulaks, the gulag archipelago and the atrocities of the NKMD? What about the cultural revolution in China and the killing fields of Cambodia? Those campaigns slaughtered over a hundred million people total, and they were ALL communist regimes. Is THAT the modernization you're talking about?
Ask all the Russians who still live in third world conditions if Soviet communism 'modernized' them any.

Communism is merely fascism of the 'poor,' where one set of masters is exchanged for another more brutal set of masters. Fascism is the flip side of this coin, but both are based on forced collectivism that erases the individual in favor of a hive mentality. Both derive their ideas from Marx, and both movements were financed by Wall Street.

5:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Justice Inc. - I do think you need to give us proof on the Mandela allegation...

He strikes me a one of the very few world leaders of stature of recent years to be largely untainted and truth and reconciliation was a great step beyond both straight eye for an eye retribution as well as the strict legal justice sort out by the late Simon Wiesenthal. Truth and Reconciliation, by contrast, works with the principle of forgiveness - something highly significant.

6:04 PM  
Anonymous Justice Inc. said...

Be patient, I'm working on this Mandela thing as we speak.

Anonymous 6:04
It's so easy to advocate the passivity of "forgiveness" when you can't count yourself amongst the victims, and in the total absence of any justice.

One can only forgive when the one chooses to out of personal choice, not because it feels good to someone else. One wonders if you feel that the family and survivors of 9/11 should be so forgiving as well? How about the Jews, Gypsies and others during the Third Reich? Dresden perhaps?

How would you feel if some predators burst into your house, forced you to live in the basement except when you come up to work for them. They live and enjoy the complete run of your house and grounds and you enjoy the confines of the basement. Meanwhile they use and abuse you and your family at a whim. They steal everything of value, your cars, land, and you can live in the basement with a rusty bucket to crap in and the solace of a shit existance. They set up rules only for you and your family and plot your destruction to claim the whole house.

Would you be so forgiving? If you do, that's your own personal choice and that's no body elses business.

6:47 PM  
Blogger Steve Talbert said...

I think the saying is that.. history doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

6:49 PM  
Blogger Morgan Wolf said...

Some of us voted for the Democratic candidate as the usual strategy for the 'lesser of two evils' scenario.

That one still makes me laugh.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice? Don't get fooled again.

BTW: Sunny, I'm with you: when Kerry started winning, I knew it was rigged.

6:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"There's always the "meet the new boss, just like the old boss" trope to encourage a healthy cynicism, but there's also human miracles like Mandela and Chavez who make hoping for a better way more than an idle dream."

That would be the same Chavez who recently said that the UN's headquarters should be moved out of the U.S...."some say, to Jerusalem."

Jerusalem, you know, the place where the pyramid with the all-seeing eye sits on top of the new Supreme Court building? You know, the pyramid that's on the back of your fiat money dollar bill?

"Some say, to Jerusalem."

But the idea of a Left-Path-Following New World Order run from Jerusalem? Well, that's just a MEME! (Repeat word like a parrot, MEME, MEME!) Smoke blows from smoke machine...

"Sorry to tell you this, but Nelson Mandela and the ANC were bought and paid for by the Rockefellers, Oppenheimers and DeBeers."

Chavez, Mandela, and a very long list of others...puppets, stooges, playing the roles they are assigned to play by the people they work for.

6:59 PM  
Anonymous Jim said...

I don't know enough of the Truth and Reconciliaton Commission but I do know that forgiving a drunk driver whom has killed by not throwing him in jail is one thing. But allowing him to keep his driver's licence is quite another.
I think that everyone can see that the economic situation, which is fundamental to any community justice, is unchanged. This has to tell you something.

7:10 PM  
Anonymous ender said...

Here's a a little nugget re:Mandela/ANC/Rockefeller love triangle:

"In July 1993, establishment notable David Rockefeller hosted a dinner for top corporate executives to honor Mandela and raise money for the ANC election campaign. On that occasion, Mbeki, in his capacity as ANC foreign secretary, praised Rockefeller for having "backed the ANC financially for more than a decade." "

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:ziuD_-T6P9MJ:www.realnews247.com/mandela_replacement.htm+%22Nelson+Mandela%22++%22david+rockefeller%22+%22african+national+congress%22+&hl=en

What was your first clue? How about corporate medias' endlessly positive representations of him (Mandela.) That is how you know him and why you love him. Very different from the treatment that Chavez is recieving from same.

As an aside, I have often wondered if 25 years of mind-control/torture
were the key to his successful ascention.

I'm afraid that I have to agree with Justice Inc:

the TRC (Truth and Reconcilliation Trials) were utter bullshit contrived to provide absolution to terrorists, thieves, murderers and monsters.

gigi*

11:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I knew it would be John Kerry, when after the Democratic Primary debates, some bimbo actress posing as a TV journalist commented that Kerry "looked the most presidential." Personally, I though Al Sharpton did the best of all of them, and I don't even like Al Sharpton.

At this point, Dean was ahead by about 20 or 30 points, literally. But I knew it was not to be. The media was always labeling Dean as angry. Kerry, on the other hand, "looked presidential." What garbage. The whole thing is as fabricated as "The Real World." Every aspect of it.

The notion that Dean could lose an election because the media replayed his scream . . . sure. Americans are that fickle. Whatever.

I think anyone who's taken enough red pills to reach this site knows that every single premise or assumption presented by the media is probably manufactured. That whole narrative of Dean being ahead, but then blowing it by being angry and yelling Yeeha is as phony as the narrative of Bush galvanizing his evangelical base into coming out in droves with his talk on values.

I want to see John Stewart or Stephen Colbert solemnly opine that the 51% of America that gave bush his mandate, are now the 51% who want to impeach him. How do we know this? The numbers are the same so it must be so! 51%! The very number is fraudulent. First, cut that number in half, then subtract a few million and you get something closer to 20%. Then subtract all the ditto-head morons and bizarro less-of-two-evillers and you may have 7-8%.

When I was in DC, I met a right-winger, a teacher. He was a Bush supporter. He admitted the criminal nature of our system, but said he believed in survival of the fittest, and that he should exploit the system, even at everyone else's expense. But that's not survival of the fittest, it's survival of the most criminal.

But at its core, I agree with Kunstler, they'd really bottle the air and sell it to you if they could. Spaceballs, anyone? It's turning out to not be such a ridiculous premise after all.

As for the assasination of leaders . . . It's not that hopeless. For every Kennedy or King assasination, there are armies of people underneath who continue the fight. And since those types of leaders are bogus anyway, and can be bought by those in power, decentralization is the way to go. The real reason these people run the show, is because we the people let them, because we're fat and comfortable. We know they're criminals, but its easier to do nothing; there's no risk in doing nothing, and we have too much to lose. Even those who have next to nothing have enough to lose. And in any case, people like being led, they like being told what to think. How can they not? They've been conditioned that way; just little man with the mortgage hanging over his head from the Kink's song "Shangri-la."

But when things get tough, people will wake up, and either it will be too late, or it will turn into a bloody mess.

11:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

if I remember my facts correctly
1. Mandela secretely negotiated with the national party while in prison. I understand something had to be done and this was the only way to get political leverage but in the end can you ever make a deal with the devil and expect to come out unscathed? He rightly deserves accolades for doing the almost impossible but at what cost?

2.The Afrikaner Broederbond (afrikaner secret society) gave De Klerk the ok to negotiate. The head of this same secret society together with Gavin Reiley who heads oppenhiemer intrests, including the the anglo american company agreed to meet with Mbeki then ANC information director and later president of SA only after a Ford foundation conference in NY. What was discussed at the conference to make these guys decide to meet with Mbeki?

3.During the exile years money flowed to the ANC via COSATU who got money and training via various foreign lefties and labor groups and Russia in particular but also from Americans, the Swiss and the Brits. Many SA union leaders went on to become government leaders and quickly forgot their socialist roots. Former COSATU leader and cabinet member cyril ramaphosa is the current neo capitalist darling and south africa's business tycoon du jour. While nothing is wrong with being wealthy it is clear that he was well prepared and placed for his various activities but by whom?

Also I found it quite interesting that the ANC turned away from their original economic plans and adopted the neo-capitalist, neo con economic tool GEAR which only worsened things for the majority of the population while allowing for a few blacks to join the parasitic elites.
There are ample mainstream sources like Allister Starks Beyond the Miracle and Leonard Thompson's history of South Africa if you want basic mainstrean info. They don't say it outright but leave enough info for anyone to connect the dots as well as see these authors own biases. Yes inkatha and other opposition groups were armed and funded by the same fascist minded elites who 'funded' the ANC. It's called playing both sides and create instabilty so you can rule behind the scenes. Even with all that I've got to give it to Mbeki for embracing some of the ideas of an avowed believer in UFO/ secret govt manipulation. The only thing is he may be part of the manipulating team now and he was Mandela's right hand man.

There is even rumbles from some quarters that COSATU is being set up to be the main opposition to the ANC and if that alliance goes well so does any measure of stability and this would be the supremecist sign to step in again. As if there is any real stability now.

Same crap different country. Mind control works and we remain ignorant sheep. Gain some information and you're just sheep with data but still a sheep. We need some knowledge that allows one to really make choices, otherwise we end up as meat trying to attack the wolves head on.

thanks for sharing your knowledge Jeff.

12:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I thought the TRC concept was extremely enlihjtened - still do - but you know, as was posted, the economic sys didnt change and I read a woman's comment. She had lost a son to assasination by the cops or something, and she wasn't too into the "trc deal" She said 'mandela and _______ got a difference they got out of prison, they have people comforting them and compensating them, but me? I got no son and nothing, and no one's doing anything for me' words to that effect, roughly. Those posters ( forget their names) are right, methinks . . . Well, I dont know as Mandela is a stooge or isnt a stooge. Maybe he's just tired and going along to as little degree as possible and still live in his new comfort$.

1:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We'll just have to wait for Justice Inc to present us his "yellowing clippings," I suppose. In the meantime I'll keep what I know of Mandela like the beacon of hope it's always been. And yes, I've read books, not just clippings and websites, and yes, I've been to South Africa and seen the results of his leadership with my own eyes, talked to black and white, on the lush streets, and in the shanty towns. I was shown his cell on Robben Island by a man who used to be a guard, and who now works as a guide. I would never dream of demeaning the work and spirit and love and suffering behind that change. No, it's not perfect, nowhere is. But it's better, and part of that improvement was learning to listen to, AND ACCOMMODATE in some way, you enemies. Truth and Reconciliation is a hard path, not a soft option, and the cop on the corner is still the cop on the corner.
"If they are treated too harshly - or if the net of punishment is cast too widely - there may be a backlash that plays into their hands. But their victims cannot simply forgive and forget."
Frankel, Out Of The Shadows Of Night.

If you can't understand why it's necessary to accommodate your enemies, there's nothing I can write here, in this context, that's going to help you understand why Mandela will talk to, and listen to, anyone. Even Rockefeller. Even you.

2:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'll tell you what happens after that.

When China is finished counting the days while Americans are still laughing at the face of death the hollow giggles that will have reached the very depths of hell will have awakend the great dragon and it will rise to swallow America whole.

Laugh that one off.

7:08 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rome is indeed a better analogy than Nazi Germany. Germany got the Marshall Plan. Who is going to step in and set America back on the road of the Constitution and Bill of Rights?

It's not unlikely we'll see South African apartheid style (or French?) rioting in the streets in a couple decades by the "Average Joe". If we are _lucky_, we may see that rage channeled into undoing the damage of the new Gilded Age as the movements of the 1920s and 1930s reformed the first corporate era. If we're not that "lucky", and I think there are plenty of reasons to be pessimistic, we'll just become history's largest third world dictatorship. Decline into madness.

Kerry's slimey cluelessness is always a good tie-in for such an essay. This nouveau riche frat boy married to a giga-millionaire is the best "opposition" our current system can supply? Does make you want to gag, doesn't it?

8:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To TMB:

just fyi the book "War on the Mind" is available and amazon.com has 5 copies...

8:48 AM  
Anonymous Justice Inc. said...

Alright everyone, I am unable to find the proper substantiation for my claim at this time. This by no means detracts from the oral sources in the PAC and ANC who relayed this to me at the time. I could swear that I had the proof in a British newspaper article, and very well still might, however I could not locate it in my archives. Perhaps it's in some boxes I'll have to go through.

I'm man enough to be up front and begrudgingly tell you this, and also I want to give a big ups to Tal for the assist.

I spent hours on the internet and pouring through papers trying in vain to find this elusive information.

In the face of any adversity, I still stand by my statements and convictions, as investigators it behooves us all to examine every factor. I do believe that Mandela was bought and paid for, I also know that he was righteous and firm in his convictions at the time. This is why he spent 27 years in Robben's Island while a Steve Biko was assassinated. I detract nothing from the Mandela who strived and actively fought for justice, inate human rights and dignity.

I do severely question a man who would ally himself in later years with the absolute Hitler of Africa: Cecil Rhodes http://www.rhodestrust.org.za/mrf/mrscholarships/mrscholarships.html.

I also stand firm in the conviction that the TRC is nothing but a sham meant to dissolve pain, pacify outrage and derail justice. Further I believe that Bishop Desmond Tutu was complicit towards the facillitation of these ends.
I for one will never join the cult of personalities the cabals choose to parade before us. I choose my heroes by the consistency of actions.

I will conclude by stating that I find it more than a little disconcerting that people wax seriously about aliens, paranormal creatures and a myriad of assorted apparitions with nary a demand for "proof". Yet choose to place an entire impetus of an investigation upon whether or not Justice Inc. can produce documentation. There is a disparity and contradiction that exists that I am finding harder and harder to reconcile.

When I do finally exhume the documentation, and I am sure that I will, I will live up to the commitment I've made here and duly post it.

8:50 AM  
Anonymous Dream's End said...

Yes, the demand for proof is so unfair. Crawl back under your rock.

9:04 AM  
Blogger ravebyron said...

Who are we kidding...why bother even thinking about "HOW" to make changes when we can do it simply:
1. Stop Buying Coffee!
2. Stop Buying Retail!
3. Stop Watching TV!
4. Stop Driving!
5. Stop Using disposables!
6. Stop Polluting!
7. Stop Enjoying Violent Films!
8. Stop Supporting Troops!
9. Stop Eating Sugar!
10.Stop Bashing Women!

9:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Justice Inc:

" ... yet choose to place an entire impetus of an investigation upon whether or not Justice Inc. can produce documentation."

If you mean what I think you mean (syntactically a little challenged, here); well, not really. You just made some unsubstantiated claims that only you, apparently, can back up. Take all the time you need to go through that shoebox. This is too important to rush.
But please; never refer to yourself in the third person again, okay? That's only okay if you wear a cloak and collect comics. Even then it's pretty creepy.

10:07 AM  
Blogger Tate said...

I have a site called
http://presidentkerrydeceptions.blogspot.com/

I cut and pasted some of the heartbreaking stuff from Kerry's blog the night of the "election". I have other things now that fit in, I think, with the results of Kerry's betrayal.

A disabled vet was angry at the person who organized the Jan. 6, 2005 rally to support any Senator brave enough to challenge the electors - ended up being Barbara Boxer and Hilary folded quickly and read that Kerry had asked his fellow Dem Congresspersons not to challenge the vote while Kerry was in the MiddleEast that day.

Someone wrote he should have been concerned about his own election not the Middle East elections.

The first thing I read about Bilderberger mentioned Kerry only in passing and thought that Christopher Dodd would be the candidate that Bilderberg would support.

Village Voice tried to warn with an article about Kerry's destruction of eyewitness evidence that there were 2,000 American POWs in Vietnam because Bush, Sr. wanted to use the money for major drug trafficking according to Ross Perot who was threatened by Bush, Sr. when he took his job of finding the POWs seriously.

Perot's quote can be found in the book KISS THE BOYS GOOD-BYE. The author had a job with a name newspaper but was so disgusted by the intellectual fraud of the Drug War that she quit when they would not publish any information on CIA, Bush and major drug trafficking to write this very brave book.

The betrayal of Kerry of the Iraqi soldiers who believed he was working behind the scenes to help them makes me ill. When he was in the Middle East on Jan. 6, he was conning the desparate soldiers caught in that hell.

Look into Kerry's destruction of evidence during the first part of the Iran-Contra Hearings which is why he was replaced as prosecutor in the second part.

He was having money problems at the time and had not married Theresa yet and wanted to do a favor for his blood brother and fellow Bilderberger bush, sr.

11:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the poster who opined that the 1920s and 1930s were a reformation of the 'Gilded Age,' I say you need to revisit the historical record. Those decades were when the gilded elites codified their rule over the people with the force of law.

During that period Americans were forbidden from being able to outshoot corrupt police with the National Firearms Act. They lost jurisdiction over their own lungs with the Marijuana Tax and Stamp Act, and their real wealth was seized by the government when they were forbidden to own gold.

The money power essentially declared is sovereignty over the republic during that time period. Is that your definition of 'reform?'

11:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would like to see the proof Justice, Inc speaks of but why is it so difficult to enetertain the thought of Mandela being paid for by the Rockefellers et al?

Any regular reader of this site knows that many leaders are manipulated behind the scenes.In light of that, it shouldn't be so hard to consider the possibility that Mandela sold out along the way.

Note: I am not saying Justice's allegations are true. I am just encouraging us to keep an open mind either way.

11:26 AM  
Blogger Tate said...

The Evil is So Great It Must Be The Tribulation Period as Jesus said - Hope of Resurrection and The City of God - No War, No More

White Phosphorus atrocities at Falluja at the time of the 2004 Presidential "election" so that Kerry or any Dem or any Media reporting would look like a traitor if talked about the atrocities.

This genocidal offensive was planned to coincide with the theft of the election.

I'd say this was a parting present from the Bu$h administration to the incoming Dem administration, in a way like Waco was to Clinton and Reno.

Only problem for Bu$h is that the election fraud worked keeping him in the role of responsibility for this war crime.

Though it technically isn't napalm as it's not gasoline jelly, the W77 does use kerosene jelly and polystyrene so it's effects are just as dramatic as napalm.

White Phosphorus isn't supposed to be used as a weapon either, it's legitimate legal use is to illuminate the battlefield. Using it against a civilian population is beyond the pale.

These people in the leadership positions have made our soldiers accomplices in war crimes.

As Americans, we also are responsible for what they have done in our name. This infuriates me. I never wanted to be part of this, but I am. Just when you think you cannot get any more angry.

Bastards. will this ever break through to general consciousness? maybe in 20 years....
but I hope the power of the "internets" brings it out sooner.

Now I've got to run and vomit, before leaving for work.

Yep, and Negroponte's fingerprints are all over that little deed n/tSo that's why they ambushed her car and killed that agent

Video online in Flash 8 format and downloadable as a wmv file. Video online in Flash 8 format and downloadable as a wmv file.

http://chris-floyd.com/fallujah/
I've thought about this, too. I'm glad you mentioned it. It seems logical that they were the ones, as they were the only ones who would actually NOT want her to expose what had happened in Fallujah. She said they told her she should not reveal what she had learned.

That wouldn't make sense from the insurgent position. Giuliana Sgrena is in the video Giuliana Sgrena (the italian reporter) is in the video and says plain and simple that she was researching about Falluja when she was kidnapped. Okay, finally had time to finish reading it does everyone here remember all the Brits and Americans that were dressed like insurgents that were caught?

Couldn't her kidnapping had been by these types of insurgents? Democratic Americans are the best force we have in the world. (hey... I don't mean the party!!! LOL)

Wasn't this what the Italian reporter was working on when she was fired on by American forces? (when she was taken hostage and freed)

Is white phosphorous considered a chemical weapon? I know, first hand, that we have been using it in combat for a long time. It was used in grenades during WWII, Korea and I saw it in Vietnam. If it is being used on civilians then that is totally wrong and criminal, but if it is used in combat against armed military forces I believe it is an accepted practice.

Willy Peter is a horrible weapon. It will burn right through a body and there is little that can be done to stop it. Unlike napalm, where the oxygen is sucked right out of the air immediately resulting in instant death before inceneration, white phosphorous literally eats the flesh away from its live victims.

War is barbaric. If this is the chemical similar to napalm, they were using it at the beginning of the war too, which is Completely against International Law. this is a global terrorism against humanity this administration and their criminals belong in the gas chamber ....

would this be tied to jenin by any chance?

High-res download. http://www.rainews24.rai.it/ran24/inchiesta/default_021...

Is it genocide yet? Who is using WMD on who? wonder if this story will ever break here There have been pictures of this on the web, although one site that had them pretty much disappeared
(Fallujah in Pictures - whatever happened to that site?) So sick, and so sad Link to download the video (low res) This is the link to download the full 20 min. video at low resolution in english language:

http://www.rainews24.rai.it/ran24/inchiesta/video/fallu...

The proof are shocking. The images and footing far worst than Abu Ghraib.

democraticunderground.com/

Thanks for the RAI news link. I wonder if I can be brave enough to watch this horror? These are War crimes no room for excuses. The individuals that gave the orders to use these prohibited weapons are War Criminals. If they are not Prosecuted for their crimes they will go on to commit more and so will those that follow in their foot steps.

This is not the time to be silent it is the time to Stand Up and SHOUT NOT IN MY NAME Not with my tax dollars incinerating Women and children.NO!! Hope all DUers do this

Sending this Video to everyone I know & encouraging then to do the same. Then I'm sending it to the Producers of Frontline see what they think.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/contact/c4.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/contact/c4.html "How can I submit a story idea? Story ideas can be sent to: Story Editor, FRONTLINE, 125 Western Ave., Boston, MA 02134. FRONTLINE welcomes suggestions from our viewers and we review all letters and ideas. We produce approximately 18 new programs each season and evaluate over 600 program suggestions and proposals."

Also to the excellent Canadian News Show The Fifth Estate they would show this in Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/contact.html
There was discussion here at the time it was happening or shortly thereafter. (Can't search for the thread now since we're at Level 1)

The stories and discussion were about a napalm type substance that was used during the 'taking' of
Fallujah. The media did not report anything about the claim at the time. They had clips from it on Democracy Now! this morning Don't plan on eating after you watch it.

Pentagon had a spokesman in Baghdad, who admited using White Phosphorous, but not on civilians. But the film clips show otherwise. Those Pictures are from "Freedom on The March - Exporting freedom and democracy to the Persian Gulf"

How can you possibly have the moral high ground when you're troops are doing this to people?
A couple of addresses, to grease the wheels.
news-tips@nytimes.com
http://www.cnn.com/...
KOlbermann@msnbc.com
http://msnbc.msn.com/... (Scroll to the 'email nightly news' box)

Think of it this way: A few dozen emails by Kossacks to each of these outlets might get ONE of them to cover it. If ONE of them covers it, it breaks and becomes a huge story in the US.
Americans react in shame, sorrow, and outrage, and the growing pressure to come up with an exit strategy becomes a deluge.

Maybe we all can end this nightmare of a war tonight.

11:30 AM  
Blogger michael the tubthumper said...

the phosphorus is not the only thing - try this link
http://www.bushflash.com/pl_lo.html

11:45 AM  
Anonymous starroute said...

At the point in early 2004, where they shuffled Dean out of the rotation and Kerry in, I was already convinced that it was because Bush looked weak enough that he might lose. (Or lose by too much for them to steal it.) Since then, a few more supporting facts have become apparent.

The "Dean scream" speech was January 19, 2004. On January 25, 2004, David Kay reported that Iraq had no WMD's, setting off renewed pressure from the Democrats in Congress for investigation of the administration's use of pre-war intelligence. For a few weeks, it looked as though the cats might actually get out of the bag -- until Cheney and Libby managed to stonewall and Pat Roberts to perform one more coverup in the Senate Intelligence Committee.

I'm going to have to double-check on the exact chronology of Dean out/Kerry in. But I strongly suspect it will line up with the calls for investigation of the intel -- and that Kerry represented the backup plan when it looked as though Bush might seriously be in trouble.

The PTB don't mind having liberals run for president on the Democratic ticket when they're sure to lose. It's only when the Democrats have a chance of winning that they make sure to keep the liberals out.

12:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I concur with Anon 11:26

I don't know about Mandela one way or the other.

Many amazing possibilities are highlighted on this site and not treated with the disdain that Justice Inc.'s comment was.

Now I think most on this site would agree that the political and media process is subject to some form of control.

Accepting that premise, is it really possible that a leader outside of control of the PTB would recieve universal accolades from the mainstream media and politicians?

I guess it is possible as long as the leader was fulfilling the role that the PTB expects of them. If this did not continue to be the case the leader would be quickly removed from power and influence ASAP.

In some forums this would be a difficult task to get readers to accept but I'm a bit shocked that it is hard to get people to accept it here.

I mean look at the thesis of Jeff's column on Kerry. Essentially it is that Kerry is part of the PTB and was put into place as a straw man to lose the election.

OK, let's assume this thesis is entirely correct.

How can I be expected to believe that the same MSM that lets the Kerry operation go unchallenged lionizes Mandella who is purportedly at cross-purposes to the PTB?

Come on - the media's "superstar" treatment of the supposed independant and godlike Mandella is inconsistent with Jeff's thesis on Kerry. Either the media and political process is "fixed" or it isn't. Let's excercise some Rigorous Intuition on this matter.

Justice Inc. - it will be interesting if you can find supporting documentation.

12:20 PM  
Anonymous starroute said...

Checked some dates - The Dean scream after the Iowa primary was January 19. His second-place finish in New Hampshire was January 27. And it was all downhill from there.

In other words, the Kay report on January 25 could very well have been the trigger.

(Hmm. My verification word for this post is "dvgop." And yes, it really was Dean vs. GOP -- but Kerry not so much. Thank you, oh ouija board of the word verifications.)

12:39 PM  
Anonymous Justice Inc. said...

Dreams End spewed:
"Yes, the demand for proof is so unfair. Crawl back under your rock."

You got a personal beef or do you feel put upon in some way?

I kept this dialogue completely objective and said nothing untoward to any who posted here to warrant that kind of purile remark. I was very forthcoming and stood up like a man up to admit I didn't have the demanded documentation (other than oral testimony).

You want a fight? Take it out on the cabal and stop cannibalizing your associates for trying to investigate beyond the box.

1:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There was a comedian, I think it was Jerry Sadowitz who used to open his stand up routine by walking on stage and in a loud voice exclaim,

"Nelson Mandela!"

He would then wait a few long seconds before following up with,

"What a cunt..."

Invariably it got a lot of laughs.

I will not attempt to define comedy but one reason must be it was (and is) so unexpected and so taboo.

Nelson has been deified. Fuck with him at your peril. For example it’s the first time I've seen Jeff get off his stool.

1:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Very interesting developments in this thread.

The unwarrented attack by Dream's End is telling.

Mandela's "deity" is clearly very strong stuff to many people.

Apparently a conspiracy involving hyperdimensional beings and satanic influenced intelligence agencies is plausible, yet Nelson Mandela's being a part or tool fo the PTB is not?

Apparently we need "proof" that Mandela is a tool of the PTB; yet any number of other speculations are fine without "proof" and breeze by without challenge?

How about this for "proof" that something is fishy with Mandela: he is deified and promoted by the very people who would be running the supposed conspiracies embraced by alternative researchers.

Sorry you can't have it both ways. Either Mandella is an inside man of the PTB; or the whole concept of a controlling PTB isn't viable.

Hate to say it guys but this is all a big thought excercise anyways. NONE OF US knows wtf is really going on with most of the topics and shouldn't pretend to. Hypothesis can be tabled but that's all they are.

And if anyone offers an opinion that is different than your own insults are not appropriate.

2:12 PM  
Anonymous Razz48 said...

I need a translation--what is "PTB"?

Thanks

2:46 PM  
Anonymous starroute said...

Powers That Be.

Conspiracy theory light -- the power brokers within the US establishment who are assumed to exercise control over candidates and other aspects of elections.

2:57 PM  
Anonymous razz48 said...

Thanks.

I got the meaning, but had never seen that abbreviation.

3:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1:03 and 2:12:

Thanks and cheers for the insight.

4:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Stimulating conversations as always.

I read somewhere a while ago, that when the PTB put a liberal Democrat in office that is because they have a domestic agenda, and when they install a conservative in office, it is because they have a foreign agenda.

Just food for thought and made me think hmmm at the time I read it.

Anyone who really thinks that all this is not scripted and fake is in for some heartache. This year's supposed "election" just made it patently obvious to me.

We are force fed propaganda from the minute we leave our mother's arms and are sent off to "mandatory" school. Then bombarded by media when we are still little babes.

I grow more hopeless daily. I am an old sixties radical that is still trying to figure out how we sold out and became part of the machine. Funny how rich and powerful many of those "hippies" have become.

Ted Turner now owns (I think) 1.8 billion acres of land. That's a lot, and he's just a drop in the bucket.

I watch my children become the ultimate consumers - oh how they love to consume. Their idols are Paris Hilton and their ilk, with their $3,000 handbags. You are defined as a person by how much you flaunt. Look at the hip-hop culture and gangsta rap and how they are destroying the minds of our youth, all the while laughing to the bank.

Farmers are going belly up all across the land, while hunger in this country grows by the day. Farmers get paid more to plant natural grasses (Rewilding of America) and millions are starving across the world.

Bit, by bit and piece by piece their plan is coming together.

The sad thing is none of us has a clue how to stop it or change it.

We just sit and talk about it.

Myself included -

5:17 PM  
Anonymous aj said...

anom 517-

It seems to me the purpose of this and similar discussions are exactly-"sit & talk about it", but then to sit and talk about it with others, who have no idea what is going on....
We can help influence the world in very little ways, bad or good.
Look at Jeff Wells-an unknown just a few years ago, now... a pretty hot-in demand- guy, (even if he IS from Canada).:)

7:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The "Dean scream" was shopped in an audio/recording studio. He was addressing a very loud, very boisterous group of supporters and was shouting in response to the almost overwhelming noise coming from the crowd.

What was played over and over on the MSM were his words at the original level but with the crowd noise greatly diminished.

10:14 PM  
Blogger GT said...

I'm sure that pretty much everyone has already seen it, but this piece

The Concept of Evil

on CommonDreams today is quite insightful.


And to all the 'Cult of Mandela' Anonymi - PLEASE. A political leader who is not a stooge? If you think you've found one, smack yourself in the head with a two-by-four until you change your mind.

Chavez - stooge. Lula - stooge. Castro - stooge. Kerry/Bush/Reagan... stooge/stooge/stooge.

Martin Luther Christ Jr? Stooge. Adolf Hitler? Stooge.

People only become politicians (and/or bureaucrats) because of one motivation - a quest for POWER. It's always cloaked in (internal and projected) rhetoric about how the world has to be MADE better - and only a megalomaniac thinks that he knows better than the actions of self-regulated individuals , be he liberal or fascist.

And if one achieves power, any high-flown rhetoric they might spout on the way to acquiring power is quickly discarded in the face of any risk of LOSING power. And you never get anywhere near the levers of power without the assent of the money power.


I've said it myself - even someone as nice, smart and goodlooking as ME would have death squads before the end of the first month if I was suddenly president of the world.

Of course I would only liquidate those whose utility functions were INcreasing functions of the gap between themselves and the median (i.e., those who thrive on - and derive HAPPINESS from - a widening wealth disparity). And redheads (I was picked on by a redhead as a kiddie).

I would also give Dick Cheney's heart the surcease it clearly desires... it has been trying to switch itself off for twenty years to escape contamination it gets when pus and bile oozes from the hole where his soul ought to be.


It's all garmonbozia, baby.

Chhers,


GT
GT's Market Rant

11:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Call me a Cult of Mandela stooge if you like (I don't care), but just to hit this particular nail on the head one more time for the world: what he did, his leadership, his example, not only made South Africa a better place but serves as an ideal in a world used to the cynical opportunism of ordinary politicians. Of course, you may have a sneer on your face as you read this. But I bet you haven't been to South Africa. You haven't seen with your own eyes, as I have, the positive changes he brought about. You haven't talked to the people, black and white, about how they feel about Mandela. And anyway, you have your own Cult of Mandela (as stooge, as patsy, as pawn), and I have mine. I'd much rather base my particular Cult of Mandela on personal experience (and reading) than on unsubstantiated accusations and assumptions on an internet blog message board.

This tendency to say "all leaders are bad" is nothing more than a mindset that prevents the emergence of a good leader. It's an easy, even perversely comforting, position to hold. Far harder to hold on to heroes, and make them real, to be one yourself.

10:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The South Africans feel a lot better that their hero was freed and his story is inspiring (whether he is a tool of the PTB or not) but...is life in South Africa better? Has the economic situation improved? Is crime down? Has the justice system improved?

I mean no disrespect but good feelings aren't enough.

1:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ya, the PTB have a nice consice yet minimizing word for a good politician - "a populist"

I watched Jimmy Carter on Charlie "a-ptb-butt-kisser-folksy-aristocrat-cool-accent-terrible-interviewer" Rose, and he had the most evil glee in his eyes during the whole interview. And he about peed his pants at his own insite that Carter was not a good liar.

Can we reelected Jimmy Carter please? I think he knows how to handle those Nazi's now...with God's Grace and Forgiveness and Justice.

7:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let's see, Mandela spent 27 years in the hands of the most debased Nazi-types this side of the originals. And once he got out and ascended to the presidency, his term helped repair the image of South Africa AND move more wealth into the hands of the elites.

With that in mind, it seems reasonable to question whether he was compromised or not.

Here's an article on the state of South Africa.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/develop/democracy/2003/11safrica.htm

I find this excerpt interesting:

"When the ANC-led government first came to power, it introduced an ambitious Reconstruction and Development Programme (RDP) which promised to deliver social services and infrastructure to communities that were previously marginalised by apartheid. Social grants were no longer allocated on a racial basis, free health care was made available to women and children, and new health clinics were built. The government also provided piped water supplies to seven million people and redistributed 1.8 million hectares to landless blacks since 1994. But according to government figures, unemployment has risen from less than 20% in 1996 to 30% in 2003, and the number of households living below the poverty line ($60 per month) increased from 28% in 1995 to 33% in 1999.

Margaret Legum, an economist with the South Africa New Economics Network, a Cape Town-based think tank, says: “The ANC, with its roots deep in egalitarian political values, was joyfully elected to promote redistributive development. It promised economics that would match the political miracle to benefit everyone.” - “But the government’s review of the past ten years shows that even more people now live in destitution than in 1994, that redistribution of access to utilities is undermined by poverty, that utilities are privatised to foreign companies and that at the top, galactic incomes are earned.”

Oh, and I'm glad that the Truth and Reconciliation Commission allowed the (still) oppressed people of South Africa to forgive their oppressors. Too bad they couldn't put away any of the real bad guys like Dr. Wouter Basson. Maybe next time.

4:23 PM  
Blogger GT said...

Hi again, Mandela-Cult Anonymi.

It's all just Jim-Dandy regaling us with the useful fiction that the apparently-avuncular Uncle Nelson is some sort of Christ-figure who was purified of his tendency to plan to bomb things by the crucible of the Island... it's a lovely story for the children, especially.

And his performance as national figurehead was a tremendous achievement in marketing and public relations - it rivalled Phony BLiars rise to the Labour Premiership in the UK for high-flown rhetoric and the ability of a charismatic person to 'take the media with him'.

But the reality is that South Africa is one event away from turning into Rhodesia. Try living in central Jo'burg; it's not hugely different from Harare.

In case you've forgotten, Uncle Nelson is a fellow whose nearest and dearest friends invented the 'necktie'. Sure, he grew up in a bad area, but I'm sure there are hundreds of folks his age from his neighbourhood who don't know anyone who ever put a burning tyre around another man's neck.

I may be unrepresentative, but none of my ex-girlfriends got a whitewashed trial for setting an informant on fire, either.

let me say categorically that I don't support apartheid - and never did. It was a compensating mechanism for Boers: to try and reduce the gap between themselves and 'White' (English & German) South Africans by increasing the gap between themselves and the schwartes. I mean just take a look at folks (or 'Volkes') like Eugene Terreblanche, and you'll get my drift.

'Proper' whites (English and Germans) never really took apartheid seriously - and when everythign looked like going down the pan, all the double-passsport holders buggered off.

And one last about the Xhosa-Zulu divide (which very much mirrors the colonial habit of putting the MIONOTIRY naties in charge of the majority - as with the Hutu/Tutsi dichotomy in Belgian Congo); when Europeans first arrived, the Zulu were on an absolute rampage, conquering huge swathes of the southern tip of Africa and wiping out everyone else in their way (they have a notion of racial purity that rivals the Third Reich). Had 'Whitey' not turned up and stopped the bloodshed, the Xhosa would have ceased to exist... and Buthelezi and the rest of the inhabitants of Kwazulu still think of the remnant as unfinished business.

It won't happen this week, but mark my words; South Africa is doomed. And to think - under apartheid it had more black millionaires per capita than any other country on earth, and had GDP growth which was the envy of the rest of Africa. (Again, I don't support any regime that imposes any constraints on individual iberty, but the statistics are interesting).

As someone else said in this thread - everyone here is willing to believe in dark forces that seek to shape human destiny, but a goodly chunk have swallowed one particular PTB myth... hook, line and sinker.

We all need to believe in something I guess. For me, it's a 'Big Three' of nanomanufacture, telomere biology and artificial intelligence as a mechanism to achieve genuine destratification of the whole of humanity. But it won't happen while sensible people are diverted by the Spectacle.

And I believe that there are folks that absolutely thrive on negative energy (garmonbozia). I'm not one of them.


Cheers again,



GT.
GT's Market Rant

PS I just chaged to a selling bias for US stocks.

12:38 AM  
Blogger GT said...

MIONOTIRY=MINORITY... I've not had much sleep.

Apologies for that.

Cheers,


GT.

12:40 AM  
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12:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jual Obat Kutil Kelamin Wanita
Obat Kutil Kelamin
Obat Kutil Kelamin Ampuh
Obat Kutil Kelamin Tanpa Operasi

9:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cara Mengobati Kutil Kelamin Pada Pria dengan mengunakan obat kutil kelamin herbal sehingga tanpa Operasi sembuh total karena saya sangat takut apabila mendengar kata operasi apakah ada pengobatan kutil kelamin yang dapat dicegah dari rumah untuk menyingkirkannya? Apa ada perawatan yang baik untuk kutil kelamin manjur apakah ada solusi alami dalam perawatan yang untuk ibu sedang hamil

4:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

tersedia untuk memperlakukan kutil dengan sendiri? Mungkin ini semua pertanyaan yang mungkin Anda pertanyakan pada diri Anda sendiri jika saat ini Anda memilki kutil Berikut dibawah ini pembahasan dari cara mengobati kutil kelamin tanpa operasi dengan menggunakan obat kutil kelamin tradisional paling manjur aman untuk ibu sedang hamil

4:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

bagi ibu yang sedang hamil ataupun untuk ibu yang sedang menyusui segera kontak kami untuk mendapatkan obat kutil kelamin terbaik de nature serta paling manjur cara mengobati kanker payudara dengan menggunakan obat kanker payudara paling manjur terbuat dari daun keladi tikus sarang semut serta dari daun sirsak insyaalah tanpa operasi kanker payudara dapat sembuh dengan cepat | obat wasir wasir | obat kutil kelamin segera kontak kami untuk mendapatkan pengobatan yang terbaik dari klinik herbal de nature untuk ibu sedang hamil

4:14 AM  

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