Pictures from a demolition
I don't know what to make of this yet, except to say look at this:
The photo is the BBC's, taken in the immediate aftermath of the London bus bombing. Notice the white "Kingstar" van parallel-parked opposite the site of the blast? (The van is facing the opposite direction of the bus; the front of the bus had just passed.) Any guess what business is Kingstar's? Would you believe, "Controlled Demolition...in areas where minimal disruption and minimal noise requirements are paramount"?
It may turn out to be nothing, as things sometimes turn out to be, but it's at least another curio for the increasingly curious case of the suicide bombers who weren't. "Why did they buy return train tickets to Luton? Why did they buy pay & display tickets for cars? Why were there no usual shouts of 'Allah Akhbar'? Why were bombs in bags and not on their bodies?" asks The Daily Mail.
No shortage of good questions these days. That's the thing about bad days.
The photo is the BBC's, taken in the immediate aftermath of the London bus bombing. Notice the white "Kingstar" van parallel-parked opposite the site of the blast? (The van is facing the opposite direction of the bus; the front of the bus had just passed.) Any guess what business is Kingstar's? Would you believe, "Controlled Demolition...in areas where minimal disruption and minimal noise requirements are paramount"?
It may turn out to be nothing, as things sometimes turn out to be, but it's at least another curio for the increasingly curious case of the suicide bombers who weren't. "Why did they buy return train tickets to Luton? Why did they buy pay & display tickets for cars? Why were there no usual shouts of 'Allah Akhbar'? Why were bombs in bags and not on their bodies?" asks The Daily Mail.
No shortage of good questions these days. That's the thing about bad days.
posted by Jeff at 11:15 AM
59 Comments:
Jeff,
Here is another good question from Zymphora:
A sandwich for Allah
Here's a good photo of the suicide bombers.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/05/uk_enl_1121560562/html/1.stm
Note the plastic bag. Why do you carry a plastic bag with you if you're going to blow yourself up? Do you think he's bringing Allah a sandwich?
well, it is an interesting coincidence, but I can't help but wonder why they would use a marked van for such activity. A plain white van would do just as well.
As for the sandwich...I think the idea that these guys were suicide bombers will be completely abandoned. Somehow they will have to show that these guys knew they were going to blow up a train but thought they were going to survive and even use their return tickets. Perhaps we should have some sort of judging routine for most creative way to make this implausible story stand!
"I can't help but wonder why they would use a marked van for such activity."
Regardless of the value of this information, I think there's a "What, them worry?" dimension to these events. Tracks needn't be carefully covered, because only a conspiracy theorist would follow them. Leaving a signature also sends a message for those with eyes to see, as killers often do.
What's with the 'horrendous scream' before the blast on the No.30 bus? Was that the sound of someone's belated first inkling they're a suicide bomber?
[url=http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1121119816521&DPL=IvsNDS%2f7ChAX&tacodalogin=yes
]link[/url]
The return tickets don't seem very convincing to me. They might think buying a one-way ticket would make them stand out, or it might just be a contingency plan if they decided to call off the operation for some reason.
And maybe the controlled demolition company was there right after the blast in order to do, say, a controlled demolition, in case there were still explosives on the bus that were further endangering the scene. Has anyone bothered to ask for an official explanation? I'm not saying it should be taken as gospel, but skeptical has to cut both ways.
maybe the controlled demolition company was there right after the blast in order to do, say, a controlled demolition
I can't dismiss that out of hand, but the photo seems to have been taken in the immediate aftermath. Passengers are still exiting. And London authorities have considerable resources to draw upon for dealing with such events, having had years of experience with the IRA. I think it unlikely they would call upon a private demolition contractor for assistance, and secure for it a parking spot directly opposite the scene.
I think it's plausible that they would in fact contract out for that, but it would have to be an existing on-call contract -- I agree they're not going to just look someone up in the Yellow Pages.
Would be good to get a timestamp for the picture to see how soon after the explosion it was. The people in the wreckage look pretty clean to me, i.e. it doesn't appear that they're the ones who were in the bus at the time of the explosion, though I could be wrong. Obviously Auntie (the BBC) had time to get on the scene.
well, it is an interesting coincidence, but I can't help but wonder why they would use a marked van for such activity. A plain white van would do just as well.
orgy of evidence.
clues that arent clues to throw any real investigations off... and totally confuse the whole situation...
I suppose they had been told to deliver packages to various addresses ... they appear relaxed enough in the photo. They were probably mules.
They bought return tickets because they were not suicide bombers. The bombs were timed to go off - without the carriers knowing - before they were going to leave the bombs on the trains. They were patsies; no more guilty than the explosives in the bombs or the bags that carried them. They were brainwashed.
The van is "just one of those things". If it had been parked opposite a tube station, then it might have been a connectable dot.
"Notice the white "Kingstar" van parallel-parked opposite the site of the blast?"
The van is not parallel parked. Other photos from the BBC show that the van is in a line of traffic stopped at a pedestrian crossing.
The name alone is enough to raise hackles.
"King Star"
Makes one think of Lucifer (King of this World, Morning Star).
Jerky
Interesting quote from the article on thestar.com (url earlier by Tal):
"He thought it couldn't be the one Rosenberg was on because the route seemed wrong."
The changed route was mentioned in another article too... Why was the route changed ?
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/09/london.busdriver/
the route change seems to be natural decision by the public transport authorities..
Link is tenuous.
You might like to know of the occult history that exists in london ..pretty close to the action too.
This ley line has been in the hands of the Establishment for years. Theyused the Greenwich section for astrological purposes. Time and space are measured from here.
The British Establishment have now gained universal recognition for their hermetic system. Meanwhile, the other section at Queen Mary and Westerfield College has been the centre of sub-atomic research. Thus Greenwich accounts for the macrocosm, while the alchemical processes north of the river
account for the microcosm.
Many people believe that Greenwich is in fact the Omphalos -- or
spiritual centre -- of the British Empire. However those with a deeper
understanding of Feng Shui, the ancient Chinese art of land divination, will recognise that the actual Omphalos must be on the Isle of Dogs, protected by water on all sides. Those who visit the Mudchute -- a piece of park mysteriously built as an exact replica of an ancient hill fort
-- will find a special staircase leading to a cobbled circle. This is
the Omphalos, the spiritual centre, where the magus John Dee conjured
up the British Empire in the presence of Christopher Marlowe, fourhundred years ago this year. However, using the leyline for such evilpurposes necessitated the sacrifice of a human life. A psychic attack on Christopher Marlowe and his friends in a Deptford pub lead to a brawlin which the famous playwright died.
NAZI OCCULTISTS SEIZE OMPHALOS
Omphalos, Arcs & Archetypes
1558 to 1583 John Dee, Elizabeth I's famous scientist, magician, astrologer. and intelligence agent publically introduces English to Renaissance Christian" cabalism, magic and science with Jewish/Sufi roots in Venice. Dee invents "British Israel/Identity" doctrine as an explicit justification for the British Empire. First public hint of alliance with Jewish enemies of the Vatican "Anti-Christ." Dee, on an intelligence gathering trip under occult 'scrying' cover plants Rosicrucianism in Germany.
1558 Spanish Armada sent to Britain to crush British rebellion against Papal Authority. British victory marks the beginning of British naval superiority.
"Puritans" first come to the attention of the public, not for intolerance, but for "cabalistic" Bible interpretation in defiance of Rome and advocacy of pure, Biblical worship free from Rome's idolatry. Seek out Jews for correct interpretation of the Old Testament, accused of "Judaising".
l600 East India Company chartered as a Crown Company. Exploration and colonization proceeds with gusto.
Literary Note: Secret intellectual warfare between Catholic and Jewish-Cabalist influences surfaces. Marlowe writes "Faust" to defame John Dee as a Satanic Magician, "The Jew of Malta" to enrage public opinion against the growing commercial alliance with Jewish Merchants and "Tamburlaine" to discredit Elizabethan British Empire ideals. Spenser writes "Faire Queen" to eulogize Elizabeth I as the magical "virgin" Queen. Shakespeare writes the "Merchant of Venice" to humanize Jews and cautiously soften attitudes toward Jews who are still banned from England. Shakespeare's "Midsummers Night Dream" romanticizes the Elizabethan Age.
Neo-British Empire of the Crown
----------------------------------
The "Bomber" Witness, The Dog That Barked In The Day-Time & The Vanishing Eleven
.... i´d say that this guy has been integral in this whole sordid episode......
Another DUmb-ass, spreading lies. Go figure....
Stay at DUmb-ass central, DUmb-ass.
Armada = 1588, not 1558. Not sent to crush any rebellion against the Church, but to stop English meddling in the Low Countries and rouse the Irish into rebellion (neither one came close to working). It was more defeated by weather, starvation and circumstance than by the embryonic Navy, no matter how skilled or courageous, and they were both. Read your Mattingly before trying to link the Armada, somehow, to Dee, who was really more of a Katherine Harris than a Karl Rove.
statcounter is a wonderful tool if you aren't already hep. dig?
thought i'd check over here since the OP fluttered down to the basement. man o man.
Camera image: 7:21:54
1st bomb explodes: 8:51
Hell of a long time to just ride around contemplating your death eh?
Getting down into the weeds here gets pretty dizzy, pretty quickly.
As noted at, yes, even DailyKos, these bombers may have been part of an al Qaeda cell containing a mole, whose cover the Bush administration blew to upstage the Democratic Convention last summer: (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/14/211527/166)
Now as Jeff notes, even noting this raises even more questions - what do we mean when we say al Qaeda?, etc.
A very enlightening quote comes right after the lede of the same Daily Mail story:
"A security source said: "If the bombers lived and were caught they'd probably have cracked. Would their masters have allowed that to happen? We think not.""
Right - but just who are those masters, anyways? And who are the masters' masters?
One thing I know, is that there are a helluva lot of people getting played for rubes these days. But that really isn't that different, is it?
not been following this event; but was this "bomber" running late? why he was still on a bus... maybe the "handlers" were in a panic to find this guy...and when the gps found him???
...while he was fumbling around with his backpack and screaming in fright...maybe the van was there to intercept in some way??
I wouldn't place any importance on the presence of the Kingstar van in the photo. I work in civil engineering & the demolition services undertaken by Kingstar & the like is removal of concrete by sawcutting etc, and not controlled, instantaneous demolition. The vans of similar contractors are all over London, with the ongoing amount of building/construction work going on.
I think the incidence of the underground rail closures and the presence of large groups of special ops police forces at various location on the morning of 7th July but BEFORE any of the explosions occurred is far more interesting. See here for example: http://www.hof.org.uk/cgi-bin/newdisplaypost.pl?1:245801.cc and here : http://ichat.thisislondon.co.uk/messageboards/threadnonInd.jsp?forum=113&thread=221152&message=591018
ditto
Interesting that the CCTV photo shows distinctly wet ground, looks kind of overcast and they're wearing coats, when in fact it hadn't been raining that day (or week) in London, but rather was very hot and sunny!!!
I suppose it's possible that the pavement there had just been washed for some reason or something, but still... odd.
They might think buying a one-way ticket would make them stand out,
Unlikely... it's not like on a plane where that might raise suspicion. Many train journeys in the UK can often be made without showing your ticket to a person at all... and even if they do check, noone particuarly cares where you're going or if you're coming back, so long as the ticket is valid.
To play devil's advocate, A more likely non-conspiritorial reason for them to have return tickets when they didn't intend to return, is that due to the insanity of britain's rail system a return ticket is often not really more expensive than a single... in fact, I once asked for a single and they told me that a return was actually cheaper for my journey! :-O So, something similar could have happened.
Not that I remotely believe the media speculation about suicide bombers etc... Nothing about their behaviour seems to reasonably suggest it.
Correction: having said that, it actually looks like there was some rain that morning after all:
http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/EGLL/2005/7/7/DailyHistory.html
hey, wait...Weather Underground!!?!?! :-O
Anonymous said...
Another DUmb-ass, spreading lies. Go figure....
Stay at DUmb-ass central, DUmb-ass.
THIS IS THE SORT OF TRENCHANT REBUTTAL THAT MAKES SKEPTICS PROUD THE WORLD OVER.
Have parts of the bombers been found or were it just their id's ?
Maybe they planted the bombs and ID's and got of the trains ? But why endager and humiliate their families ? And withe the knowledge that they were spied upon like in "1984" they would have been caught by now.
Besides that:
the suicide bombers had bought return tickets and were planning to hire a car. ... so they planned suicide attacks?
If they didn't plan suicide attacks why didn't they take precautions being filmed or use disguise if they wouldn't get caught afterwards?
The police states on 7/7/2005 that tests show that military explosives were used, probably from the Balkan, but now they say it was homebrew stuff.
See also peter power on BBC television were he's interupted by his interviewer just as he's going to explain the precise nature of the exercise...
Were the four hired by e.g. MI5 as figurants or Foxes , but given real explosives (military quality..) and blown up from a distance? by whom? Al qaeda? CIA? MI5?
You know Mike,
Some time ago Bush told the press about the three big dangers of the free world (haha)
first two were if I remember it well: North Korea and Iran but the third were internet discussion groups (!)
So are we seeing some light in these dark ages ?
Again about the London subway explosions. The police told us about the four men being used as low rank Al Qaeda members being told that they would only deliver the bombs and return to their families....!?!?! So they didn't bother being filmed, hire a car, care for an aliby, use a disguise, leave their identity papers at home, in fact they did do nothing to be uncovered or being tracked down after a succesful bomb attack.
Oh yes the sceptic would say they were out on a real suicide attack but that has clearly been opposed and is even accepted by the SUN and Daily Mirror (!). Specialist in explosives declares on 7/7/2005 that the bombs were based on military explosives and since there were no thefts reported in the UK it must be from the Balkan. Now they say it was home made stuff. Maybe the specialist is new to the subject or they didn't find Balkan explosives at the Egyptians hous but only some drugstore bottles.
Nettanjahu did seem to be wellinformed and didn't want to leave his hotelroom..., maybe he was afraid of the rain, itwas arainy day according to the picture of the four alleged terrorists at the railwaystaion.
If the British police doesn't come up with a consistent and reliable story and some pictures of the evidence found at the Egyptians house than it's legitimite to choose one of the following scenarios:
1) The four were used in a anti terror drill going on at the same time (Peter Powers, Visor Consultants) for wich they would get a large reward if kept secret. Motive: prevent withdrawing British from Iraq, Keep military forces in countries opposing Israel (and wait untill they find the link to Iran so they can "free" that country from it's WMD and oppressive regime.) Find a pretext to help arabic countries of choice to manage their oil.
Other motives: introduce more oppressive and controling measurements in Western countries to a level where the author of "1984" would have sought psychiatric attention had he come to think of it.
2) Sick of all those real decadent Brittons and being verbally molested and discriminated by the whities they went to the Egyptian chemistry professor and asked him to make some real heavy explosives and told him to be out of the country before 7/7/2005 because there might be need for it by that time, and oops, they forgot about their families. (Or after some brainwashing and discussion they decided that they would end up in paradise with unlimited ammounts of virgins and that would be better than living with their wives and crying babies at home)
3) A well respected chemistry professor from Egyptian origin searched on the internet and read to much about Al Qaeda, built some bombs in his house and went to the Local Mosque in Leeds to reqruit some real dumb and frustrated guys to punish those Brittons for the war in Iraq. "there's no risk in it and in the afternoon you sit in front of the television looking at an antheap in panic" " One more thing, wait till I've left the country."
With respect to reporting of the London Bombings, have a look here http://mediamatters.org/static/video/foxandfriends-200507070004.wmv at how Fox news presenters were almost glad how terrorism was now back on the top spot of the agenda, instead of global warming or Africa.
Sickening...
Let's face it, we could drive a truck through the official story of what happened in London.
There's no way it adds up. I lived in London for a decade, caught the tube every day and there's a few things that people here need to know about the tube system:
1) Londoners are very sensitive to items being left on the tube. It's a hangover from the days when the IRA wasactive in the 80's and early 90's. Even now there are 'Beware of Strange Packages' posters all over the tube system. When I caught the tube each day, several times I saw people chased down by other passengers to confirm that a lone bag or package was indeed theirs.
2) It makes no sense at all that a bomber intent on leaving a package on a tube train would conceal it in a large, day-hike style back pack. Tubes trains are designed specificifically for commuters and not people travelling over long distances (as many overground trains are with their large luggage racks etc). It's my experience that one would be hard pressed to conceal anything much larger than an average paperback book on a tube train.
3) In twenty years of attacks the IRA never succeeded in bombing the tube system. Yet the IRA was a very sophisticated organization that puleld off a number of very daring attacks. I'm sure that most people in London would attribute their failure to successfully attack the tube system to a number of things including: a) Londoners' general vigilance towards unattended packages and strange behaviour on tube trains and b) the sheer number of CCTV cameras on the system itself - including trains and platforms. In fact, given this, one could make teh case that suicide bombing would be the only way to strike a tube train and, as we know, the IRA wasn't an organization that recruited suicide bombers.
So that leaves us to ponder the possible 'suicide' nature of these bombings. Yet so much of the evidence suggests that these were not suicide bombers.
Smiling, laughing, buying magazines and sandwiches, buying return train tickets, dilligently paying for their parking... it just doesn't add up.
So what did they think they were doing?
A dress rehearsal for planting bombs?
A dress rehearsal for a suicide bombing?
Taking part in a drill?
In all of this, the thing that is probably most scary is that having watched the US MSM roll over like a baby for the Bush administration, I'd always assumed that such a thing would never happen in the UK - where a free press still seems to mean something. Sadly, having watched and read the coverage of these tragic events thus far, I'm far from convinced that the UK is headed anywhere but down the same dreadful path as the US.
Hey, check it out! The innocent-of-all-wrongdoing-but-inexplicably-prewarned-Israeli's are helping school know-nothing Scotland Yard from hundreds and hundreds of miles away! Good thing these peaceful defenders of freedom are on the case to help...
"We were warned" "We weren't warned" "We were only warned a LITTLE bit..."
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Security/5997.htm
Mossad tells Brits: Same explosives likely used in Tel Aviv and London blasts
By Israel Insider staff and partners July 11, 2005
The terror attack in London last week may be tied to a suicide bombing on Tel Aviv's beachfront in April 2003, German newspaper Bild am Sonntag reported.
According to the paper, Mossad officials informed British security officials that the explosive material used in the Tel Aviv attack on Mike's Place pub was apparently also utilized to stage the bombings in London on Thursday.
The Mossad office in London received advance notice about the attacks, but only six minutes before the first blast, the paper reports, confirming an earlier AP report. As a result, it was impossible to take any action to prevent the blasts.
"They reached us too late for us to do something about it," a Mossad source is quoted as saying.
I think the following is the most likely scenario: Those four cricket-playing fellows being blamed for this are patsies. They harboured no anti-British sentiment as the cricket pitch is the symbol of British imperialism the world over. One had just played cricket 10 days before and all were in normal spirits. They were your average 2nd-generation immigrants who were trying to fit in and become British. They were almost certainly recruited by MI5 to make a few extra pounds and help the British government in an "anti-terror exercise" scheduled for the morning of 7 July (hence the post in this thread but above that mentioned the special-ops police forces present at the locations beforehand-- part of this exercise). So these fellows thought they were helping Britain by "playing the bad guys" in an exercise involving "mock" terror bombings on of course the three tubes and a bus. So they carried what they were told were realistic-looking "fake" bombs with real timers (and for deniability reasons, if any regular city police stopped them along the way they could pull out a business card, say "call this number, they'll vouch for me" that they're part of an "anti-terror exercise" and send them on their way). So they went to their assigned places not knowing they were being used as mules, then at the appointed time the timers expired on the three tube bombs, they exploded and remember the initial statement from the tube authorities said a "power surge" was responsible for the chaos, causing the bus to be diverted from its planned destination and I presume either MI5 remote-detonated the bus bomb or the duped "mule" became suspicious when the bus was diverted and started fiddling with it, suspecting it was a real bomb and trying to disarm it, and it went off. One or the two. But certainly none of them were suicide bombers, and were most likely not even aware the bombs were real, thinking they were part of the exercise. Also don't buy the crap about the bombs being TATP homemade explosive; on day one the explosives expert at the scene tested the residue and found it to be RDX, the same kind of explosives British military (and spy services) use. They said it only once and then shut up about it, then a week later saying it was "TATP".
P.S. In regards to the 21 July "attempted bombings" [read: pyrotechnics show], here is the most likely explanation: The fellow accused of being the 21 July ringleader, Muktar Ibrihim, emigrated from Eritrea when he was in his late teens, almost immediately getting into violent crime. He was eventually arrested for muggings at knifepoint and sentenced to 5 years in prison. Certainly while he was in prison he must have been visited by a government official of some description who told him he would definitely be deported back to Eritrea when his sentence was over UNLESS he would be willing to work with British intelligence as an MI5 asset. He accepted and after his release from prison, just as they said, he was not deported but instead filed for British citizenship and got it. (Otherwise how in the hell did he get British citizenship right after serving time for violen felonies?). He went out into the Islamic community as he was told to, became active in the small radical Islamic community in Britain (infiltrating it) and awaited further orders which recently arrived. He was to form a cell and carry out a psychological fake bombing to underscore the "terror threat" from the 7 July bombings (21 July Tony Blair had a meeting with top lawmakers pre-scheduled, regarding drafting draconian anti-terror laws). So he recruits three (or four) accomplices, British Muslims bitter about Blair's being an accessory to the U.S. in its butchery of Muslims who are provided with the fake bombs and real blasting caps, told the plan (that they were to get "payback" against Britons by scaring them in a fake bombing that just makes noise but doesn't kill or injure) and on 21 July sent on their way. So these fellows knew it wasn't an "exercise" but all of them but the ringleader had no clue it was an MI5 operation.
Jeff,
Rigorous Intuition makes for some very interesting reading, especially in light of the recent apparent coincidences of various bizarre incidents that seem to be making things rather more transparent than usual.
With regard to the bus, including an explanation of the range of King Star services, there is a bunch of writing regarding 7/7, specifically the nature of the bus explosion, and a lot of things that have happened since on Anything that defies my sense of reason....
Someone by the name of Albert Pike is reported to have written:
"No man or body of men can make me accept as a sacred word, as a symobol of the infinite and eternal Godhead, a mongrel word, in part composed of the name of an accursed and beastly heathen god, whose name has been for more than two thousand years an appellation of the Devil."
Perhaps that statement alone holds more clues than the rather lengthier tome for which Albert Pike is better known. Or, perhaps, it is yet a bigger lie still.
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