Wednesday, August 24, 2005

What do kids know?

While the world is asleep, you can look at it and weep
Few things you find are worthwhile
And though I don't ask for much, no material things to touch
Lord, protect my child
- Bob Dylan


Eight-year old Sarah Payne was snatched from a quiet street in West Sussex on July 1, 2000. Her body was found 16 days later, ten miles away. Paedophile Roy Whiting was convicted of her abduction and murder, and sentenced to life in prison.

Open and shut. Or maybe, both open and shut. Because there's this painting Sarah left behind, displayed in her classroom, which was reproduced in the London Sun four days after her disappearance: a man standing upon a 13-square checkered floor, between columns bearing Sarah's name. He wears what appears to be an apron of 33 studs, and holds an object in his left hand. His right sleeve is missing.

Investigator Ellis Taylor asks, "Where do we find black and white checkerboard floors, the number 13 and two columns? ... Who would wear an item of clothing with the right sleeve missing...wear aprons and revere the number 33?"

Maybe somewhere like this lodge, and someone like this brother:

Taylor writes:

There is a strong suggestion of paedophillia in this painting and it seems exceedingly strange that little Sarah met her death under just these circumstances. I ask you "Is this (when you consider Sarah's artwork) likely to have been the first time that she has suffered abuse?"

Taylor doesn't deny Whiting's guilt, but wonders whether the guilt deservedly rests wholly on his shoulders: "Is Roy Whiting carrying the can for others?"


In Cults that Kill, Larry Kahaner writes of eight-year old "Rhonda." Her mother contacted the juvenile division of the San Francisco Police Department because a young boy named Kevin had gone missing, and when Rhonda saw his image on television she said "My daddy and I picked up a little boy named Kevin the other day and he looks like him." (Rhonda's parents had been divorced for five years, and her father was already facing a charge of sexual abuse.) The mother asked investigators to speak with Rhonda, because she was "telling some really strange stories about devil worship and stuff."

Detective Sandi Gallant:

The story that stands out most in my mind was the one where she talks about being in a room and seeing a picture of a man with a moustache on the wall and seeing a swastika on the wall. She didn't call it that; she drew it for us. The people are in robes, and there are policemen present. She said they had blue uniforms, and she was sure they were policemen.

On this occasion, a man came into the room and brought with him a baby. The baby was given an injection. There is a fire going in the fireplace. They put the baby's legs in the fire. We just let her tell the story, but I did stop her every once in a while to ask questions. At that point, I said, "Did the baby make any noise?" She said, "The baby screamed."

Rhonda's father stood trial on a charge of incest. The jury wound up hung, six-six. "Afterward," says Detective Gallant, "some of the people on the jury said they had no problem with the sexual abuse, but they had a real difficult time with the Satanic ritual allegations."

In this drawing - apologies for the quality - two children are depicted lying on an altar as Rhonda kneels before them. ("all people is a round it!!") Her father is above, holding a baby's legs to a fire.

Rhonda told investigators her father placed her hands on a dagger, and forced her to stab the baby. "I saw worms come out," she said. Detective Gallant: "My first thought was that this kid was nuts. My second thought was: how is a kid going to know that the intestines - she described them as worms - are going to come out unless she actually has seen it or has seen something that looked like it?"

Below, Rhonda has drawn a dagger, flags and a swastika:

The latest from Ponchatoula reveals items inventoried from a Hosanna Church storage facility include weapons, flag pins, ministry pamphlets and a computer tower that "could be described as a copying station due to the multiple number of CD units it contains."

What do kids know?

Do you remember what Magnolia's child genius Stanley Spector tells himself, as the frogs begin to rain down? "This happens. This is something that happens."

Kids just know.


Anonymous Jolly Sapper said...

The tapestry of the universe woven of many threads.. Its pretty fuckin scary when you start to see a few of those threads when they loose themselves from the tapestry enough to be seen by themselves...


4:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good grief, Jeff, that is probably the scariest post you have ever done.

4:57 PM  
Anonymous Michael said...

Oh, shit....

I mean, what else can you say after reading those accounts.

Someone on your board mentioned that we need a "re-civilisation" for having a chance to get humanity out of this mess. I agree.

5:04 PM  
Blogger owlindaylight said...

My parents live in Ponchatoula ... I make yearly visits there from my home in the Bay Area. I hadn't heard about the story until I read this blog. I'll make an inquiry into what sorts of rumors are circulating behind the official tale, and write back if anything interesting arises.

5:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you thank you thank you
for telling their stories!

So many atrocities taking place in silence, no external witnesses, no time to weep.

For whatever it's worth, I've not yet met a RAT/MC survivor who did not have at least one part named Sarah.

What is it about that name?

5:19 PM  
Anonymous billie rain said...

hey, thanks for another good article. i linked it from my blog. i love the reference to "magnolia," one of my all-time favorite movies, and stanley's epiphany in the libraray is my favorite moment in the film.

6:11 PM  
Anonymous antiaristo said...

A thought strikes.
British Masonry has always drawn on the public (fee paying, boarding) schools - wasn't Waterloo won on the playing fields of Eton?
Something else we know about the public schools is that they have always been hotbeds of homosexuality and abuse (think Flashman).
Indeed is it not likely that the public school "fagging" system gave rise to the American slang for homosexual?
Yet homosexuality was illegal until 1967, with serious (custodial) penalties.
Forty years ago the law saw homosexuality pretty much the same way we see paedophilia today.
It was the perfect system of control - until 1967.
1967 created a vacuum, an unmet need within the elite.
You can see where I'm going.
It's always in the timing.

6:27 PM  
Blogger Jeff said...

"For whatever it's worth, I've not yet met a RAT/MC survivor who did not have at least one part named Sarah."

Interesting to hear that. For whatever this is worth, Ellis Taylor says something about the ubiquity of "Sarah":

"In previous articles I have shown how names could be very important in these Satanic crimes. At present in Western Australia there are 3 Sarah's missing to my knowledge. (Still unsolved 28th April 2004)

"I have discussed in my article 'The Search For Sarah' how names relate to the circumstances surrounding their disappearances and discoveries.

"Sarah means 'princess' or 'loved one'. 'Loved One' names were given to Moon Temple priestesses after their initiation. (see Search For Sarah for more detail). Payne comes from the French name 'Payenne'-pagan. Together the name means 'pagan princess'. An original pagan princess was the Egyptian Goddess, Isis who together with her sister, Nephtys celebrates her birthday in the month of July. To Gypsies Isis is known by another name - Sarah."

6:53 PM  
Blogger Wesley said...

I read this, and all I can think is that I should join the masons so I can get to a level where these things are going on, and then be in a position to expose them. Surely someone out there has done this?

Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas, in their coauthored books, have done some of this, and they've painstakingly collected and sequenced a large number of authentic masonic texts into what they call the "Masonic Testament". However, they didn't become high-level masons themselves (and now never will, obviously!)

Simply posting anonymous photos to this blog, or something like that, would be all it would take to lend a lot more credibility to these stories. The children's pictures freak me out, but as long as all we have are children's pictures, we're not going to make progress. Somebody smuggle a camera phone into a masonic/occult/satanic ritual in progress, and take a picture that can go on page one in the tabloids. Then we'll see who's interested in the story.

8:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Jeff.

I'm a long time reader & a first time writer. This is among your best work yet. Nauseating but necessary.

Just a quick note, although I know the readers of this site are aware of it. There are pagans who stare at the moon, think plants are nifty, like energy and what it can do, think a pantheon is a sane idea, like tea and candles... And then there are these nutbars who I no more class as pagan than I would call a satanist a Christian (although they still use the christian bible as their first reference). I would hope that no person would confuse a genuine earth-lovin' pagan with one of these sadistic and brutal bas*ards.

Just pointing out the dif between a pagan and a freemason or whatever they're calling themselves.

Keep up the good work.

9:24 PM  
Anonymous Avalon said...

"New moon" has varied meanings. Ellis Taylor uses the phrase to equal "first quarter," when the first slim crescent sets in the west in the early evening. But others use it to mean the dark of the moon, the nights when the moon is not visible.

"For whatever it's worth, I've not yet met a RAT/MC survivor who did not have at least one part named Sarah.

What is it about that name?"

Let's hold the esoteric musings right there.

I don't think there is any worldwide data, or even English-speaking countries data that is mixed together, but let's see the numbers I got from the Oregon government statistics, since we can get some useful name data broken down by year or by multiple years.

The name Sarah was in 11th place in 1973 and 2001. From 1974 through 2000, it was in the top 10 for girls' names, most often in the top 2 or top 4.

From 1977-1973 it was the second most popular name given to baby girls in Oregon, and it was the third most popular name overall from 1977-1992.

So of course there are a lot of Sarahs in any context.

Maybe for those who pick it for themselves who are in abusive situations, the ubiquity of the name symbolizes normality (or a wished-for ideal of normality) of a sort that their own situation doesn't offer.

11:16 PM  
Anonymous Avalon said...

Typo -- that should be 1977-1985 that it was the second most popular name.

11:19 PM  
Blogger Jonny said...

In a similar vein to the strangeness which some would suggest surrounded the abduction and murder Sarah Payne, there was also the soon-after joint abduction and murder of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman - the Soham Murders.

As I recall two police officers assigned to the case were later charged with possession of child pornography and the circumstances under which lead suspect (& eventual guilty as charged in a court of law)Ian huntley was held by the police bordered on the bizarre.

Sadly, I don't have time to Google the tale now, but it's certainly worthy of our attention.

11:44 PM  
Blogger Jonny said...

lots of Holly and Jessica here:

Can't vouch for this guy, mind.

11:52 PM  
Anonymous The Omega Man said...

For those who are interested, I’ll let you in on the secret about the number 33. It’s an arcane number of evil used by the occult cabals to signify the army they’ve embraced and serve. Simply it’s this… In the bible and other religious legends, how many angels were cast from heaven by Archangel Michael and God’s warrior angels?

In the failed coup against God and Heaven, Lucifer and one third of his legion were cast down to Earth.

What’s one third of 100? 33.3 percent!

Here's where it gets a little wild...
These satanic cabals (Illuminati, Freemasons, satanic cults, etc.) not only worship the devil, but also actively serve in his interests as human soldiers of his army of the fallen (demons). Their belief is that Satan and his demon generals promise to richly reward them if they serve his interests to make a “final” war on heaven. Part of that psywar is against man, whom he bitterly hates, seeking to defile and degrade God’s precious creation as an act of defiance and utter contempt. Just like the supremely monsterous filth that would hold a baby’s feet in a fire and then force the hand of an innocent girl to drive an athame (dagger) into it's belly.

The number 33 is their gang sign and if you check out television and the movies you'll see it rife with this satanic gang graffiti. Watch for it yourself and you’ll see it a lot in the backgrounds of a great number of films and TV shows. For example, in the movie ‘Speed’ the bus is number 33, in other films it appears as house numbers, or detectives mentioning that someone was either 33 years old or an accident scene where they state 33 people were killed. Also plane and helicopter numbers, prices of items, sports jerseys and so on. Other prominently featured numbers are 3, 5, 6, and 9, or derivations that add up to them like 54 (5+4=9). What this symbolic and coded conversation means is unfortunately un-deciphered at this time. Although upon initial examination, it may be just a subliminal flashing of their sigil geared for our sub-conscious. Or their markings delineating control and pervasiveness. For more cinematic occult graffiti, check out “The Crow”, the film Brandon Lee was ritually murdered in, and on the buildings you’ll see nothing but Druidic rune graffiti. There is no bigger kick to the left-hand path followers, than the killing of extremely rare and outstanding individuals. Divinely skilled, one-of-a-kind, people like Jimi Hendricks, Che Guevara, Marilyn Monroe, Bruce Lee, and his genetic heir Brandon just to name a few.

Movies and television are nothing more than propaganda delivery systems used to inculcate, manipulate and distract. There is a coded visual transmission occurring that we need to remain consciously aware and alert of.

11:55 PM  
Blogger Jonny said...

33? I thought it was 23. That's always seemed to be the number... at least according to my readings and noticings.

12:46 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Avalon said:

quoting: "For whatever it's worth, I've not yet met a RAT/MC survivor who did not have at least one part named Sarah.

What is it about that name?"

Let's hold the esoteric musings right there.

I said a *part* named Sarah, that is, an alter personality. I certainly did not mean the person's name on their birth certificate.

1:28 AM  
Blogger Pete said...

I noticed that stuff has numbers, too. On top of that, according to Crossing the Rubicon, Top Level data companies and signal agencies use PROMIS Software combined with AI in order to spy on all global banking flows as well as monitoring foreign government full spectrum data intlligence, and on top of that, PROMIS w/AI can see petroleum and buried resources from satellites! If the 'Petagram ' were encountered in a metaphoric register, it would be a type of Engram that refers to the lacuna in the interstices of the Knowledge/Power episteme. Wherever teraflops of data are overlapping around the nexes of war, poverty, disease, and structural ignorance, we can see the Dogstar of Lucifer, spun out in a trillion filaments of coded narrative.

Here's one fibre: Bush is reading about the Flu Outbreak of 1918? Google how prepared these cosa nostra are for H5N1, and it may shock you as not quite funny that the head hologram himself is waving this in our faces.

1:42 AM  
Anonymous Avalon said...

Anonymous 1:28AM, when I referred to "those who pick it for themselves who are in abusive situations" I was indeed referring to alters.

Ellis Taylor's original reference to which you and I both responded was to missing Sarahs-by-birth. My point was Sarah is such a massively popular name that of course there are going to be a lot of Sarahs who are victims of crimes.

Ellis Taylor's name theory needs some reality checking, rather than getting enshrined in lore.

2:08 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For crying out loud, every diner from here to the moon has a checkered floor- as do a good deal of children's play areas and the sets of umpteen children's shows. To call that brown bananna or whatever it is a knife takes one hell of a lot of creative engineering. Sick!

A special note to "Omega amn"- you couldn't be more full of shit about the meaning of 33. There's just to much real information out there for you to be this mistaken, which leads to the obvious- an agenda. How pathetic.

2:17 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Am I the only person who can't find 33? I've even put this image in photoshop and blown it up- and there are only thirty marks on the dress. (that's not an 'apron' by any stretch. A masonic apron is a white leather deal that sits over one's lap- and is never 'studded.' This nonsense is bordering on perversion.

2:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You quoted me in your response as well, and I posted the comment about the name Sarah before I had read Elli's musings.

This is the part which you do not understand.

Maybe for those who pick it for themselves who are in abusive situations, the ubiquity of the name symbolizes normality (or a wished-for ideal of normality) of a sort that their own situation doesn't offer.

No, it's not the victims who choose the name Sarah for their alter, it is their cult controllers.

2:26 AM  
Anonymous cenoxo said...

Intriguing, especially poor Sarah's painting. However, there is much speculation about it, but no one really knows its meaning or her inspiration for it.

Depending on which direction you start counting, there are either 11 or 13 rows of floor tiles in her painting. The composite Masonic Temples image shows many more rows than 13, or no distinct rows at all. This London temple has 11 x 30+ tile rows, plus a red border (Sarah's floor border is green.) Black and white tile floors can be found just about anywhere, including homes, schools, restaurants, shops, and museums.

Considering the name "Sarah" (which can alternately have a Biblical meaning), it is not chosen by parents all that often. From Social Security records applications, here's how it ranks among The Most Popular 1000 Names:

Decade ... Rank ... # Records ... % Births
2000's ... 8th ... 74,275 ... 0.7495%
1990s ... 5th ... 223,820 ... 1.1410%
1980s ... 5th ... 272,180 ... 1.4770%
1970s ... 19th ... 118,693 ... 0.7216%
1960s ... 90th ... 43,887 ... 0.2323%
1950s ... 107th ... 39,948 ... 0.2026%
1940s ... 76th ... 39,933 ... 0.2683%
1930s ... 60th ... 36,484 ... 0.3305%
1920s ... 58th ... 46,738 ... 0.3771%
1910s ... 50th ... 38,075 ... 0.4479%
1900s ... 44th ... 17,341 ... 0.5585%
1890s ... 31st ... 17,154 ... 0.7289%
1880s ... 16th ... 14,718 ... 1.0515%

Like any other name, I'd wager that the popularity of "Sarah" is due mainly to the frequency with which it's mentioned in the media of the time. Looking at the stats above, it was at its highest twice: in the 1880s, when Sarah Bernhardt was the most famous actress of the Gilded Age; and again in the 1980s, when (Jefferson) Starship released their #1 1985 hit Sara. This song has had frequent radio play over the last 20 years, which probably heightens our recognition of "Sarah" today.

I wonder what caused that big popularity upsurge in the 70s, though.

If you search for "Sarah" at the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, there are only 12 (0.0088%, or less than 9/10ths of 1%) among the total 1,362 females currently listed. Conversely, 99% of these missing girls are NOT named "Sarah".

More thorough comparisons can be made using all spellings of the name, additional data, etc., but I don't think today's "Sarahs" have anything in particular to fear from fanatical Masons.

2:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Awesome article, like so many others you’ve written, Jeff. I’m going to have to go back in your archives to read others like it. I plan to link to them from my website.

Your mention ofMagnolia reminded me of some information gleaned from various works about mind-control and especially children.

Because adults cannot allow themselves to accept the horror of satanic ritual abuse, children are left undefended by their stewards, their family, their community, their nation.

That seems to be the purpose behind horror films. By establishing the fantasyvalue of horror in the entertainment industry, the realityof horror is diminished and trivialized. In addition, a safe compartment for horror is constructed and all horror is assigned there. That compartmentalization is part of the mind control required for a “velvet glove" tyranny. Any atrocity visited on another nation is compartmentalized. Soldiers who cannot properly compartmentalize the horrors they have done and have seen are deemed to be ill, but those who are successful at compartmentalizing horror are esteemed as properly fit and healthy. In a sick society the mentally ill are judged fit and those troubled by the insanity they have witnessed are judged to be sick. Even our classifications and categories are warped by the mind-control.

From Walt Disney to Stephen King, the insanity of horror is a slow, gradual mental compartmentalization. For some it is not so gradual. Horror is a useful means of control
The children know.

Some posters have wondered about blowing the whistle on Freemasonry. Some of that has already been done. I’ve excerpted from The Egyptian-Masonic-Satanic Connection by David L. Carrico

Egyptian-Masonic-Satanic Connection

Freemasonry and the Mystery Religions

Aliester Crowley, 33° Mason, Human Sacrifice

Egyptian Mystery Religion and Masonic Lodge

3:05 AM  
Anonymous Alice said...

I looked hard at Sarah's painting. As the mother of a precocious 8-year-old who's got a reputation for drawing really well, I found it difficult to believe that an 8-year old child would draw such a meticulous "map" unless she'd been specifically instructed to do so, particularly with numbers of tiles and studs on aprons, etc.

Did she draw this at school? Or somewhere else and bring it to school? If the latter, it may have been drawn under the supervision of someone who wanted her to leave such a coded message.

Has a child psychologist specializing maybe in play therapy, looked at this painting?

What was Sarah like before she was abducted, were there inexplicable changes in her behaviour or appearance? If not, that may be because she had not been abused, or, on the contrary, had been abused for so long that noone around her could point to a "before" and "after". In that case, surely her life before the abduction should be examined meticulously.

By the way, did a forensic examination of her body show sexual abuse, whether recent or over time?

The problem with a lot of these weird crimes, whether the abduction and murder of a little girl or the September 11 attacks, is that (in not all, but too many cases) the crime itself is given a tremendous amount of media attention, ie pictures of blood-spattered walls, gore and revolting details, etc.

Then, a "perpetrator" is found and a number of very, very important and reasonable unanswered questions become thoughtcrimes, relegated to the lunatic fringe.

Since I'm on the subject of the lunatic fringe, right-wing "christian" talk show host Michael Graham has been fired, although unlike other fired employees who DON'T spew hate for three hours a day in the name of God, he was immediately snapped up by a private station in Washington.

The reason I'm bringing this up is that, due to RI, I've become very sensitive to things I wouldn't have noticed before. Graham's station, which by the way, will probably rehire him once things have calmed down? WMAL, owned by the Walt Disney Co. W-MAL. hmmm... And get this, from the Washington Post:

"According to WMAL, Graham said 'Islam is a terrorist organization' 23 times on his July 25 program. On the same show, he also said repeatedly that 'moderate Muslims are those who only want to kill Jews' and that 'the problem is not extremism. The problem is Islam.'"

Finally, I wanted to ask Jeff why you made no comment about the horrific bomb blasts in Sharm el Sheikh last July 23. I'll overcome my usual paranoia to divulge that I am Egyptian by birth, and like all Egyptians, was shaken and traumatized by the bizarre, vicious attack. Nobody has yet put forth any serious (excuse the pun) explanation as to who was behind the mass murder or even why. But the day it happened, I immediately flashed to your "America's Dog Star Days" post, in which you write:

"In Cosmic Trigger, Robert Anton Wilson writes that 'July 23 is the day when, according to Egyptian tradition, the occult link is most powerful between Earth and Sirius.' The 23rd is the Sumerian and Egyptian New Year, when Sirius rises from behind the Sun."

PS: My pseudomym "Alice" doesn't refer to the occultist "Alice Bailey" whom you quote in the "Dog Star" post, but to my feeling that I've fallen down a rabbit hole.

5:25 AM  
Anonymous The Omega Man said...

Anonymous said...
"A special note to "Omega Man"- you couldn't be more full of shit about the meaning of 33. There's just to much real information out there for you to be this mistaken, which leads to the obvious- an agenda. How pathetic."

How can this incindiery garbage contribute constructively to the dynamic being created here at RI?

For fuck's sake it's hypothesis and the organization of known information that's being put forth towards the larger goal of getting at the truth--exposing crimes and criminals. So what might be my "agenda"? This is the second time some baseless crap like this has been leveled at me with zero to back it up. Just reactionary and inflammatory bad-jacketing designed to poison the well.

That you make something personal at this, might indicate the information's closer proximity to being dead on. Produce better facts or a constructive counterpoint rather than hysterical rants.

7:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sarah set out to produce a realistic picture, not an artistic creation or a ‘fantasy’. That does not mean that she attempted to paint something she actually saw (though it is likely), just that she wanted to draw a ‘real’ scene - it might be imaginary. (Such as e.g. Mommy standing next to the Santa Claus in the shop when her mother had never been to that shop.)

If, and I repeat if, she is representing a lived scene:

The prominence of the floor area in the picture indicates the floor was ample and empty of objects, etc - large living room, hall, etc. (Her rendition is not an artistic device, though it comes over quite nicely.)

The red lines on the white tiles must have existed. Her switching from square to circle is not due to laziness or tiredness, but probably means that the pattern was not quite capted by her.

In her picture, the tiles are laid flush to the edges of the walls. This often not so in real life - see the next picture in Jeff’s post. (Note: contact local tilers, floor layers, find out custom, etc. ..bit late heh?) Sarah would not have been able to represent the tiles in any other way but flush to the wall. In real life they might be turned.

The floor is the best clue. Might be enough even to find it in real life.

The missing left sleeve is deliberate.

The held object could very well be a knife, but other things also.

Having the real pic. would settle that issue. The photograph doesn’t represent the whole painting - edges missing - are there 13 tiles down also?

There was some green decoration in the room - most likely the wall paper had a green pattern and possibly the skirting was green.

She has added her name (that was not written on the walls) to make sure she is identified as the author - it is HER picture, HER message.

With more knowledge about the child; her previous art work; her mathematical skills; the materials she had on the day, etc., much much more could be done. It would be possible to sort out the figure (man? woman? Sarah herself?) and possibly even arrive at a very rough description. What is the symbolism of the missing sleeve? Is it always on the same side? (Also, understand if she represented columns or not, and if the 13 is deliberate or accidental.)

Intuitively: this is not a happy painting. It breathes menace. In fact, it is quite alarming (independently of what Jeff wrote or quoted.) Its appearance of course is rather decorative - that is because Sarah could not paint any other way. Her artistic gifts are limited, despite what others say.


7:40 AM  
Anonymous AlienSpaceBat said...

Anonymous said...
"Am I the only person who can't find 33? I've even put this image in photoshop and blown it up- and there are only thirty marks on the dress."

FWIW, I count 33...

8:22 AM  
Anonymous airdrawndagger said...

In Nazi Germany,on August 17, 1938, Jews were required to insert *Sara* or *Israel* as a middle name.

8:48 AM  
Anonymous Dream's End said...

I don't find any images of masonic aprons other than the little half aprons that only cover the old loins. I do count 33 studs, if you count the ones on the sleeve. The two collumns are probably a regular feature, though I'd expect them to be black, white, or both.

Now, on the other hand, if you want to call the outfit a "dress" as one anonymous poster did, you'd probably have to make a theory that accounts for the very clear five o'clock shadow on the face of the wearer of the dress and pretty masculine looking hairstyle as well.

I don't find anything typically masonic about the apron, but it does look like a butcher's apron...and that's definitely unsettling. And, I don't have any expertise on masonry, just googling around. Others may find pics that more resemble the drawing.

9:28 AM  
Anonymous Jeanette said...

Children Know! And I certainly did know. I mounted a criminal prosecution of my pedofile father, a 32nd degree Grand Master Mason in 1992. The lodge to which he belonged for over 25 years, was directly above a day care center with a hall way leading from the day care to the lodge. In addition at least two other men from this lodge had been convicted of child sexual abuse. Is this random? Birds of a feather, flock together. Sarah knew and I knew. We told in the way that we could, but it is up to all of us to listen.

9:58 AM  
Blogger Wesley said...

Thank you Sheila for bringing some actual analysis to this discussion!

I wouldn't be looking for the painting to contain exactly the right number of buttons, rows of tiles, etc. If it did, I would suspect it was supervised, as others have hypothesized. If it is truly a product of her recollection, then I think a reasonable observer would admit that it very well might represent the interior of a masonic lodge.

I would echo the commenter who wanted to know more about the provenance of the painting. When was it made, and who was it made for?

10:22 AM  
Anonymous starroute said...

If people are going to continue beating up on the Freemasons, I'd like to see some coherent theory of what foulness they think is going on, and why.

My own knowledge of Masonry is mostly historical in nature. From anything I can tell, in the 1700's they were definitely among the good guys -- a center for the rise of democracic and egalitarian ideas, a source of higher insight at a time when traditional religion was failing.

It was only in the wake of the French Revolution that elaborate conspiracy theories began to be devised, pointing to the Masons as the heart of a long-term attempt to destroy civilization by overturning the established hierarchies of church and state. Fringe groups like the Bavarian Illuminati (which from anything I've read was no more than a pseudo-Masonic cult) were dragged in to add verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrativve.

In the last two hundred years, those theories have been trotted out whenever the power elite wanted to discredit any sort of left-wing movements. For example, I've seen it suggested that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion was anti-Masonic propaganda before it got tweaked into anti-Jewish propaganda. Identical theories were being pushed by the John Birch Society in the 60's, got picked up by much of the New Right, and are still visible in the anti-NWO rants of people like Pat Robertson (as well as in the milder denunciations of "liberal elites" by the right in general.)

That history is why I'm extremely skeptical about any blanket attempts to identify the Masons as a satanic conspiracy.

On the other hand, I can also see the outlines of a very different kind of conspiracy theory struggling to get out of all this right-wing crap. That is the notion that the real problem is with the usual suspects -- the people at the pinnacle of the power elite -- and that Masonry is only one of a number of formal structures that those people use to maintain their coherence as a group and their control over the rest of us.

A theory of that sort would have the great advantage of corresponding to what we see in the real world -- where the left is a fragmented bunch of creative individualists, while the right marches in lockstep towards armageddon.

I think most people who talk about the Masons here do have something like that in mind. But because the exact terms are kept fuzzy, it's all too easy for Bircher crap and generalized paranoia to creep in around the edges.

I'd like to see far more focused questions being asked about the nature of Masonry today. For example, we hear over and over that Masonry is dying, that the lodges are mostly a bunch of decrepit old men, that they can't attract younger people because of their adherence to stultifying rituals, etc. etc. But on the other hand, there are also stories about how many powerful politicians are high-level Masons, how being a Mason can be essential to advancement in certain field, and so forth.

I really don't know how to make those two sets of stories come out even.

I also wonder whether Masonry as a whole has *any* agenda of its own these days, or whether it's largely an empty shell, parts of which have been abandoned while others are being exploited as concealment by those with more sinister plans of their own.

If these discussions are to continue, I'd hope to see people working up a clear description of what they think is going on, rather than merely continuing to push the "ooh, scary" buttons.

11:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous One,lest not forget Paul Brenardo,member of the Grand Lodge Of Ontario.This case of Sarah reminds me of the Son Of Sam (white wash)story. There are always going to be scape goats that will be willing to take the place for the higher ups. I know first hand about a person who was making kiddy porn for a group out of Montreal,he took the blame for high ups,and these people were Judges and well respected in the town.They are still operating,one of the group ended up killing his self because of the years of gilt. People don't want to see that all is not what is on the persons outward appearance, that sometimes there are monsters that hide behind mask of reality,ready to change in a second. These people can keep a secret for a life time,because they know what the end will be if their secret gets out,later.

12:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pat Robertson is anti NWO? You HAVE to be joking! He's supported the Bush family throughout their entire political career, even after George Sr. declared a 'New World Order' in 1991.

Robertson is a Luciferian false prophet of the first oder. The devil needs to quote scripture to further his ends, and Robertson plays that role well enough to dupe millions.

12:35 PM  
Blogger grannieN said...

Oh Mercy Me. Has the world gone mad or is it just on vacation.
I fear we are going down the tubes with every generation not only by allowing our children to be seen and not heard but by speculating about why, how, who, and when is causing this insanity. Get off your duff and do something people. Don't just sit there writing about it. Take action. Join something and get into their rituals. Spend time learning the ins and outs, blow them apart quietly and after its over tell others how you did it. Maybe they will take the cue.
Bless the children.

12:42 PM  
Anonymous Corvidaerex said...

Jeff, that's one of the most chilling things you've written here. Of all the esoteric subjects you cover at RI, this is the one I've had the least interest in, but your posts and the fact that I've got a toddler son now have combined to make this stuff absurdly scary.

Seems this one has hit a nerve somewhere, based on those angry comments and very un-RI tone to them.

I don't see Mason Bashing as a regular feature of this site, and wouldn't come here every day if that's all it was about -- the Blame It All On Masonry is a pretty tired & silly mindset, as well as being the creation of royalist Europeans and their illiterate conservative peasant subjects. But it's certainly sane to suggest some lodges of these fraternal organizations could be fronts for dark business, just as evil people take advantage of the secrecy of the CIA, White House or even local police departments to cover their crimes.

Now if you want to talk about child abuse and weird ritual on an absolutely massive & completely proven / documented scale, the Catholic Church has a few examples ...

12:46 PM  
Anonymous Ellie said...

I really think I have to go with Avalon and Starroute here.

This is the stuff of which hysteria can so easily be made. It's important to know you have your foot grounded in reasonably solid fact before putting weight on it and starting to climb.Yes, maybe the picture is a sign that Sarah was being ritually abused, and maybe such abuse is widespread...and maybe every person with the name Sarah is really a victim of some huge satanic multi-national conspiracy....

But let's just wait a spell before taking off into orbit, and be a little more sure of our basic facts or we could spend the rest of our lives tilting at windmills and leaving the powers that be free to do their stuff while we keep ourselves amused with boogeymen.

I've got a picture done by my middle son some while ago now. It's WEIRD. There's a group of kids standing in line in front of a big guy wearing an animal mask. There's a table with some stuff that looks like intestines lying on it and three 'people' seem to be kneeling in front of it offering(or maybe catching) blood in cups. The number 12 is scrawled on the top of the picture.

What it looks like is a scene out of a horror film. What it was intended to show I only know because the boy told me --

It's his family sitting down watching tv. He did them kneeling because he couldn't figure out how to draw them any other way. The 'offerings' are cups of coffee. He used red to color in the coffee because his brown pencil had broken. The 'table' is the tv, and the stuff on it is Christmas decorations (even now they still look like pieces of bowel to me!). The guy in the mask is one of his toys - drawn bigger because the boy said it was 'closer to the picture', and the 'children' lining up were his collection of stuffed animals lined up to watch the program with him.

If (God forbid) the little boy had been murdered and someone had posted his little pic on the web, then what would people like us be saying about it?

Y'all could be right, but you could also be very very wrong.

And from another angle isn't there a certain lack of thought here? Is it really appropriate to take the child's picture and make it the basis for wild speculation without even clearing some basic facts first?

I mean who else is being obliquely implicated here? The father? the mother? Is it okay to speculate like that about a child recently dead on the basis of - what? a pic we find scary, and some dubious dot-connections by some guy we've probably never heard of whose veracity we haven't even checked?

Would we be happy with little Sarah's family stumbling on this discussion and seeing her used as a basis for God knows what kind of free-associative (excuse me!) crap about alters and controllers and Lord knows what from people who probably should be taking their meds?

Remember Sarah was a real little girl, not a fantasy in some D&D universe of abstraction and thrillingly imagined suffering. If I was Sarah's mom I just might be quite angry at what might easily look like a bunch of people with loose boundaries and too much spare time having fun scaring themselves with my daughter's innocent little pic.


1:00 PM  
Anonymous Hilda Martinez said...

Well said, Ellie.

This picture could be anything. Kids draw the darndest things and without the child to interpret we will never know what poor Saracita wanted to tell us.

2:24 PM  
Anonymous Dream's End said...

It's time for a "data dump" on the Masons, I suppose. The Masons are secretive, and in our nominally Christian culture, it is odd that such prominent citizens get away with such "magical" or "pagan" practices. personally, I don't judge someone by their religion, but that's thing number one.

Thing number two is that very, very key people in history have been Masons. Why is this? Is it no more than a global "chamber of commerce" for making connections to other influential folks?

Thing number three is this. Whether you perceive occult practices as good, bad, or depends (my view)...nearly ALL of the major occult schools trace back to Masonry. Crowley was a Mason and the OTO came out of Masonry. Golden Dawn was made up of Masons. Wicca was founded by a Mason who borrowed greatly from Masonry (and OTO, with direct help from Crowley).

And, evidently, Masonry explicity adopts the idea of Blavatsky that Lucifer/Satan should be worshipped. I have to admit I'm a bit surprised to find this out, but I think the quotes in the article I'm going to link to are authentic. Their interpretation of Lucifer is of a force that represents free will, not necessarily evil. But still, in our Christian culture here in the are so man prominent citizens getting a "pass" while involved in this?

Here is a link. Let me warn you, it is from a very Christo-centric source. It is basically a summary of all the connections of the modern occult (particularly formal schools of magic) to Freemasonry. None of it is new, but it's here all in one place. The writer assumes that Christianity is the truth and can confuse straying from Christianity as "evil". And also, for this writer...well, don't be gay, that's all.

Still, little of that intrudes and it's a good summary. The connections are clear and, for the most part, not even secret. Crowley acknowledges Masonry, Gardner acknowledges Crowley, etc.

does this prove Masons molest children? Well, of course not. Just like the Ponchatoula folks used a Christian setting to do their dirty work, maybe some Masonic lodges are corrupted.

Still Crowley, a very prominent Mason, did suggest that the sacrifice of young male children were the most efficacious, so you decide for yourself as you go through this.

One thing I know for sure: looking at Masonic ritual just as discussed publicly, it simply has to be classified as a religion or as a system of magic. Claims that it's simply a fraternal organization are silly. Why have all of those rites and rituals? They'll even do your funeral for you when you die. No, that claim is disingenuous at best.

I realize a lot of this is Birch fodder and I personally do not count someone's "opposition to Christianity" as somehow evil on its own merits.

Here's the link. It definitely answers the question: Why are some conspiracy "buffs" so focused on the Masons. If you start to check out their role in history, especially American, and their role in current affairs (as in p-2/Operation Gladio) you see that it's odd we don't ask MORE questions in the mainstream. I don't think there was a single reference to Freemasons in my American History text...while so many of our founding fathers were Masons. Somehow, despite having their very symbol on the back of our one dollar bill, they tend to be able to stay below the radar.

2:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's a BIG incidence of the number 33 for you folks:

"Hell, just going back to 1960 he finds that "The money supply grew from $300 billion in 1960 to roughly $10 trillion today! That is an astounding growth rate of 3,300% or a 33-fold increase!"

2:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Would we be happy with little Sarah's family stumbling on this discussion and seeing her used as a basis for God knows what kind of free-associative (excuse me!) crap about alters and controllers and Lord knows what from people who probably should be taking their meds?

Free associative crap? If you don't understand the connection, or worse, if you don't believe that ritual abuse or mind control exist, why are you reading this site?
Your concern for the child's parents appears admirable, but your insult of someone who, however you might want to frame it, has some experience with these subjects calls your ability to be truly compassionate into serious question.

3:35 PM  
Anonymous starroute said...

To Anonymous 12:35 -

You say:

Pat Robertson is anti NWO? You HAVE to be joking! He's supported the Bush family throughout their entire political career, even after George Sr. declared a 'New World Order' in 1991.

Robertson is a Luciferian false prophet of the first oder. The devil needs to quote scripture to further his ends, and Robertson plays that role well enough to dupe millions.

Let me counterpose to that the opening of a Greg Palast piece from 1999 that was just put online because of the current Pat Robertson flap:

It's time someone told you the truth. There is an Invisible Cord that can be traced from the European bankers who ordered the assassination of President Lincoln, to Karl Marx, to the British bankers who funded the Soviet KGB. They are members of the 'tightly knit cabal whose goal is nothing less than a new order for the human race under the domination of Lucifer'.

If you don't know about the Invisible Cord, then you have not read New World Order by Dr Marion 'Pat' Robertson. This is the same Pat Robertson that the Bank of Scotland recently named chairman of its new American consumer-bank holding company. Interestingly, the Scottish bank's biography of Robertson failed to mention New World Order, the 1991 bestseller that the Wall Street Journal, in a mean-spirited review, described as written by 'a paranoid pinhead with a deep distrust of democracy'.

Okay, then, what's at issue here seems to be a New World Order/Luciferian conspiracy that we wouldn't have ever heard of if helpful folk like Pat Robertson weren't writing books to tell us about it. But Robertson, according to you, is himself a NWO/Luciferian who is only spouting this stuff in order to -- what -- mislead us from the real conspiracy which he is part of and which is almost indistinguishable from the false conspiracy which he's fulminating against?

Well, maybe so. Certainly Palast ends his own article by saying:

Yet Robertson's choice of the Bank of Scotland as partner is surprising because, until this year, he boasted of his English, not Scottish, heritage.

Moreover, in New World Order, he singled out as the apotheosis of Satan's plan for world domination the British-chartered central banks conceived by Scottish banker William Paterson.

In the book Robertson explains that Rothschild interests carried on the Paterson plan, financing diamond mines in Africa which, in turn, funded the 'satanic' secret English Round Table directed by Lord Milner, 'one-time editor' of The Observer. (Ah-ha!)

Furthermore, the Scottish banker's charter became the pattern for the US Federal Reserve Board, a 'diabolic' agency created and nurtured by the US Senate Finance Committee, whose chairman was the 'Money Trust's' dependable friend, Senator A. Willis Robertson - Pat Robertson's father.

Are you following this? That's right. Pat is the scion of the New World Order, who gave up its boundless privileges to denounce it.

Or did he? As I drove away from the chapel/TV studio/ university/ ministry/banking complex, I realised I, too, had a vision of an Invisible Cord that went from Scottish bankers to African diamonds to the Senate Finance Committee to Christian conservatives to the communist dictators to the World Wide Web...

But even granted that Pat Robertson represents that which he's preaching against, I'd expect the real NWO conspiracy to look at least a teeny-weeny bit different from the fake NWO conspiracy which Robertson is concocting to draw attention away from the real one. I mean, what would be the point otherwise?

And I'd be very skeptical of anything which features prominently in Robertson's version -- including that never-quite-clearly-defined term "Luciferian."

4:15 PM  
Anonymous Raul said...

Starroute, et al,

Most organizations of consequence are conneceted at the top by evil people--this does not mean that the regular members of such organizations are aware of this or participate in evil. The reason the picture is significant is the extremely close resemblance to a masonic lodge; although, it is a possibility the picture is meaningless, the fact that the girl was murdered and all that we know and have read here at RI suggests, overwhelmingly, otherwise. If you want to know why the masons are bad, check out The Illuminati by Christopher Everard-Jurquet available at the grail of BitTorrent tracker sites: (everyone here should be aware of this--anyone who doesn't know how to use BitTorrent just ask and I'll explain).

"But Robertson, according to you, is himself a NWO/Luciferian who is only spouting this stuff in order to -- what -- mislead us from the real conspiracy which he is part of and which is almost indistinguishable from the false conspiracy which he's fulminating against?"

That's exactly what he is doing. In the words of Vox (not that Robertson is a billonaire): "Billonaires are either atheists or satan worshippers."

If you honestly have reservations about this stuff, then please view the film and others, go back in the archives of this site, and, maybe the most important, read the fictio nal Illuminatus! Trilogy by RAW and Robert Shea (the forgotten one). Illuminatus!, especially, will rewire your brain to better able to comprehend this mess.

Though, everyone here at RI should already be on the same page, what with everything we've read here.

4:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


The reason Robertson published his NWO litany while himself being a member of the 'cabal' he supposedly reviles is called 'hiding in plain sight.' Just like when Bush said there were 'no plans' to invade Iraq in the summer of 2002 even while there WERE in fact plans to do that very thing which were moving right along.

It's the same thing all dictators do when they seize power: they claim they are doing it reluctantly, and will only use their powers for the public good. In truth they all use their power to enrich themselves and enslave everyone else. Robertson is cut from this very same cloth.

Think about it this way: he can turn around and say 'you have only yourselves to blame; I told you so' when the U.S. republic officially goes the way of the dodo, even though he will be among the benificiaries of its demise. It's his way of thumbing his nose at those who still use their brains, like saying 'what are you going to do about it?'

5:04 PM  
Anonymous Jolly Sapper said...

Isn't green the after image of the color red? : shrugs: Idle speculation, but it might be why there is green in the painting...

5:13 PM  
Anonymous Tronicus said...

I just want to say thankyou for bringing the info of Pallasts article and the identity of PRs father into view.

5:21 PM  
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5:54 PM  
Anonymous starroute said...

A couple of links:

PAT ROBERTSON, ILLUMINISM, AND THE NEW WORLD ORDER is an article at a Christian anti-Council for National Policy site that discusses Robertson's New World Order book at some length.

Dances with Devils is a long discussion of the history of right-wing conspiracy theory. In glancing over it just now, a few paragraphis that I hadn't particularly noticed previously jumped out at me in the light of recent discussions of fascism here:

While political anticommunism took center stage, subplots were woven into the script between the two World Wars. An important synthesis of Illuminati/Freemason and Protocols conspiracism is work of Nesta H. Webster. Her major works are the 1919 The French Revolution, the 1921 World Revolution: The Plot Against Civilization, and her 1924 Secret Societies and Subversive Movements. While Webster stressed non-Jewish secret elites, there are anti-Semitic themes throughout her work. Webster helped write the original London Morning Post series which introduced the Protocols of the Elders of Zion to a wide British audience.

In 1935 two authors amplified the themes of a conspiracy by international finance. Father Denis Fahey's The Mystical Body of Christ in the Modern World, was an openly antisemitic work envisioning an organically populist (volkish) Catholic society. Gertrude Coogan's Money Creators, contained implicit antisemitic conspiracist allegations linking the Illuminati and the Rothschilds to a secret cabal that created the Federal Reserve. According to Frank P. Mintz, "The Coogan book...served as a classic of rightist populism, enjoying distribution by the Liberty Lobby, Gerald L. K. Smith's Christian Nationalist Crusade, and the National States Rights Party in the early 1970s."

In the mid-1930s Elizabeth Dilling transmogrified many of Nesta Webster's themes and applied them to Roosevelt and the New Deal, portraying communism as Jewish, and Roosevelt as an agent of the conspiracy. Dilling engaged in racist and anti-Semitic red-baiting from the Patriotic Research Bureau in Chicago and penned The Red Network and The Roosevelt Red Record and its Background. A more overtly anti-Semitic tract was the 1941 New Dealers in Office, with an appropriate subtitle "with their Red Front personnel." The booklet consists of a list of Roosevelt appointees with supposedly Jewish-sounding names. The cover sported the slogan, "Keep America Christian."

Leo Ribuffo's study, The Old Christian Right, demonstrates the influence of apocalyptic Biblical prophecy on Protestant far right conspiracist movements in the interwar period, especially on the major figures Ribuffo profiles: William Dudley Pelley, Gerald B. Winrod, and Gerald L. K. Smith. It was not difficult for conspiracists and bigots within the conspiracist wing of the Christian fundamentalist anticommunist movement to weave in threads from the conspiracy theories about Freemason and Jewish elites, especially since anti-enlightenment impulses permeate all these conspiracist theories. Pelley is an example of how conspiracist allegations can "pull out all stops," especially in using anti-Semitism.

5:55 PM  
Blogger Peter Gasston said...

Too much information to take in all at once; however, for correction, it's not 'The London Sun', it's just 'The Sun'. It's a national newspaper.

6:18 PM  
Anonymous Asta said...

Secrets, secrets, secrets. It is the thing that binds the ties of families. And ancient men's clubs. (I don't know of too many secret women's organizations where they have rituals and initiations ...think about that for a moment.)

My best (and only) friend in high school was the daughter of a High Mason in a small town in Georgia. So small that the KKK meeting house was the most prominent building on Main Street. And everybody met there, for wedding receptions, wakes, you name it. The roof was covered with crosses.

About my friend: She was brilliant, talented, pretty in her own fragile way, and a member of the Rainbows, which as I remember, was the organization for the children of the Masons.

Her father was rich in upper-middle class ways and was wildly successful in his self-employed business.

He was also an alcoholic and a wife-beater, and incestuous. Not only did he prey on his middle daughter (he probably diddled his oldest), but his only son, the youngest child, hit on middle sibling, too.

This was during the '60's. I was only 12 going on 18, and didn't recognize the symptoms of a child being molested by her rich, drunk daddy. She didn't know how to tell me, I didn't know how to listen. All I could see was that she was a psychopathic liar, and she would continually ruin her expensive clothing everyday.

She tried to tell me 10 years later what was going on and I sincerely didn't understand. It was beyond my comprehension. Fathers don't do that to their children.

But I know better know. My friend has survived 2 suicide attempts, 2 abortions, and numerous marriages and divorces. And sadly, we no longer communicate.

I miss her. She was/is special.

Damn the Masons.

8:04 PM  
Anonymous Tronicus said...

Damn the esoteric hermetic doctrines, you mean, that teach men (and women) they are or can become gods, and to "exchange the truth for a lie". That is the real root of the evil. That damnable Lie.

Revelation 22:15
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

9:09 PM  
Anonymous Tronicus said...

and this seems relevant too...

Micah 6:8
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

9:19 PM  
Anonymous Haeresis said...

Still Crowley, a very prominent Mason, did suggest that the sacrifice of young male children were the most efficacious((((

I see this repeated a LOT, and it is just not true. Crowley DID make a tongue in checck statement of the sort, and then immediately ewxplained that by "male child" he was referring to semen produced by ritual masturbation. The man was no advocate of child or any other humnan sacrifice, and even politically opposed abortion.

11:14 PM  
Anonymous Haeresis said...

Also, Crowley was not by any stretch of the imagination a "prominent Mason." He did become a mason, yes- like about a third of all men at the time. The OTO's "masonic charter" was gained under suspicious circumastances and never recognized. When talking about Masons, and what one Mason or another may have done., it's imporetant to remember just how many masons there have been. membership in a Masonic order was until fairly recently, de rigeur for any man of ambition, and so you will find that a great number of men have been masons. it's the propaganda about masonry that makes people accept that a mason's criminality is due to masonic membership, yet we never go 'aha' when the criminal was a catholic or a Baptist or a rotarian or aven a member of the American Legion.

11:22 PM  
Anonymous Sepka the Space Weasel said...

Other prominently featured numbers are 3, 5, 6, and 9, or derivations that add up to them like 54 (5+4=9).

You know... a randomly chosen integer has a 40% chance of falling into that set. 40% is a fairly prominent subset. Could it be that combinatorial theory itself has been subverted by the Masons? We should remember the words of St. Augustine:

"The danger already exists that mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and confine man in the bonds of Hell."

1:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ellie, what you say is fair, and kids do draw things that look very odd or violent and can be interpreted all kinds of ways.

Nevertheless, because Sara died, that picture should have been taken very seriously, and possibly dismissed. Discussing it is like discussing any clue in a murder - people (and the media) speculate. It becomes a public affair, which is often painful for the families, to be sure, but that is another issue.


6:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sarah. wife of Abram.Abraham. The Messiah, by all accounts,a loving, kind compassionate man declared that one should take thier own life before hurting a child. A society that does not protect and champion the children is a sick society.

6:43 AM  
Blogger Pete said...

Thank you so much starroute for those links. It is incomprehendibly wierd that Robertson's bunch have spent so much effort talking about NWO, etc. I think it is not unprecedented, however. Whenever an intel agency was ready to intervene in a foreign country or a domestic labor union/college campus, they began their planning under the assumption that some conspiracy warranted a counter-conspiracy. part of the whole legend used to justify massacre and destitution would be that all plans derived from an anti-Soviet counter-conspiracy. and after a while, there'd actually be an organized resistance. This is how they militerize the situation: intervene on some pretext and eventually a resistance will emerge. that resistance will be crushed and the demoralized populace will continue to bear the brunt of disciplinarian measures.

And they're doing the same in Iraq: they never repaired the power stations or water treatment plants they bombed, they just kept killing and kidnapping, and now, lo and behold, there is an insurgency. there may be an Iraqi civil war, and 3 manageable cantons may emerge.

But here is the perplexing part: is Alex Jones merely an affect of this pattern, or a psyop that is meant to spread confusion and doubt? why do some NWO crusaders turn on their Bushite/Dominionist masters? are they lost, or nefarious?

7:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

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9:04 AM  
Blogger Pete said...

not that i would believe much on a .mil website, let alone advertised on a counter-cultural site like RI, but the link is broken dude. is it a joke?

9:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

usually i dont post comments here - just sit hours on end mezmerized by jeff's amazing talent for what he does. but- i have to say this one hit me - hard.
i am the daughter of a grand titan in the klan -( i have always disagreed with his position). he is an exceptionally violent and angry man, who would not hesistate to harm or even kill someone else; since ive seen him do it, although noone has ever believed me. just a kid talkin crazy... right?
when i was young it was very common to be passed around to all the family friends, as well as some family members. i still carry physical scars from the torture used to back up their threats of violence for telling anyone. i didnt tell anyone until i was 15.
i went to the police. believe it or not, the good ol boy system had me tested (MMPI), (there was NO way my family name could be in any way associated with those sorts of crimes), and basically forced a court ordered medication/counseling treatment plan for me, saying i was suffering "behavioral" problems. the medicine made me suicidal. many many tries - i'm still here. that was a long time ago, and i went off the meds shortly after i realized i was hurting myself because of them - never had the "behavioral" issue again... but also cut all ties to my "family" too.
i could never really fight them - my paternal family is a very presitigous family, very wealthy, very powerful. (most of the past presidents of this country and others for the past 40-ish years has dined with my grandparents).

so this may not even be related, it just felt like it to me, maybe i am crazy, maybe there is no connection between big wig wealth and power and "odd" incidents involving children and abuse.

i dont know if my male relatives were/are masons, (i wouldn't have a clue as to how you would find out either), or if that even matters. i just know that ritualistic child abuse (of all kinds) exists.
and that somehow i survived.

10:32 AM  
Anonymous Jim said...

Anonymous 10.32 - thanks for posting. I, too, can attest that it is real.

10:56 AM  
Anonymous starroute said...

Anonymous said:

"so this may not even be related, it just felt like it to me, maybe i am crazy, maybe there is no connection between big wig wealth and power and "odd" incidents involving children and abuse."

I'm sure there is a connection. Maybe 30 years ago, I read an article -- perhaps in the Village Voice -- by someone who had interviewed Washington, D.C. prostitutes and been told stories about how common it was for politicians to hire women just to beat them up.

That was a long time ago, and I don't remember the details -- whether it was specifically Republicans rather than Democrats, or members of Congress rather than staffers and appointees. But I never doubted that it was true then, and I'm sure it continues to be true today.

11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Illuminati Sex Slaves Paint Horrifying Picture

The Franklin Coverup Scandal
Child sex ring that reached Bush/Reagan Whitehouse

Was Gannon a 'boy toy' for visiting world leaders?

Child Sex Rings and The Murder of Hunter S Thompson

Was Hunter Thompson Suicided?

11:19 AM  
Anonymous Dream's End said...

I neglected to actually post the link I mentioned. So here it is:

As for Crowley and Masonry. A few quotes from the Beast himself:

"Although I was admitted to the thirty-third and last degree of Freemasonry so long ago as 1900, it was not until the summer of 1912 that my suspicion was confirmed. I speak of my belief that behind the frivolities and convivialities of our greatest institution lay in truth a secret ineffable and miraculous, potent to control the forces of Nature, and not only to make men brethren, but to make them divine. But at the time I speak of a man came to me, a man of those mysterious masters of esoteric Freemasonry who are alike its Eyes and its Brains, and who exist in its midst unknown, often, even to its acknowledged chiefs . . . This man had been watching my occult career for some years, and deemed me now worthy to partake in the Greater Mysteries. (23)

Note also that the point is not just that he was IN the Masons, but that his ritual borrows from them.

But he was definitely INTO Masonry:

"This view was confirmed when The Arcane Schools of John Yarker came to me for review. I wrote to the author, who recognized my title to the 33rd degree and conferred on me the grades of 95 degree Memphis and the 90 degree Mizraim. It seemed as if I had some how turned a tap. From this time on I lived in a perfect shower of diplomas, from Bucharest to Salt Lake City. I possess more exalted titles than I have ever been able to count. I am supposed to know more secret signs, tokens, passwords, grandwords, grips, and so on, than I could actually learn in a dozen lives. An elephant would break down under the insignia I am entitled to wear. (28)

As for the quote in question. I admit, I do not own this book, but this site alleges that these quotes are from WRITTEN Crowley works. Someone else may have these works and can confirm.

From the "Book of the Law":

"11. Worship me with fire & blood; worship me with swords & with spears. Let the woman be girt with a sword before me: let blood flow to my name. Trample down the Heathen; be upon them, o warrior, I will give y Petrovnaou of their flesh to eat 12. Sacrifice cattle, little and big: after a child . . . 24. The best blood is of the moon, monthly: then the fresh blood of a child, or dropping from the host of heaven: then of enemies; t hen of priest or of the worshippers: last of some beast, no matter what. . . . 51. With my Hawk's head I peck at the eyes of Jesus as he hangs upon the cross.... 60. There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt. (32 )

And from Crowley's "Magick in Theory and Practice":

"For the highest spiritual working one must accordingly choose that victim which contains the greatest and purest force. A male child of perfect innocence and high intelligence (f.2) is the most satisfactory and suitable victim. . . .' But the bloody sacrifice, though more dangerous, is more efficacious; and for nearly all purposes human sacrifice is the best. (f.2. ....In the Sacrifice during Invocation, however, it may be said without fear of contradiction that the death of the victim should coincide with the supreme invocation.) (33)

I just found "Magick in Theory and Practice online." There is a gloss to the section about sacrificing a "male child". It is that same explanation offered by haeresies, that he was being symbolic. This is very suspect, despite the tapdances in italics within the text, because ALL of the preceding paragraphs deal with literal sacrifices of different animals and the spiritual power of blood, etc.

See for example just above (the bold is mine to indicate the non italic text in the original. I don't actually understand what the italic text is...Crowley commenting on his own comments?):

The animal should therefore be killed

It is a mistake to suppose that the victim is injured. On the contrary, this is the most blessed and merciful of all deaths, for the elemental spirit is directly built up into Godhead --- the exact goal of its efforts through countless incarnations. On the other hand, the practice of torturing animals to death in order to obtain the elemental as a slave is indefensible, utterly black magic of the very worst kind, involving as it does a metaphysical basis of dualism. There is, however, no objection to dualism or black magic when they are properly understood. See the account of the Master Therion's Great Magical Retirement by Lake Pasquaney, where he "crucified a toad in the Basilisk abode".

within the Circle, or the Triangle, as the case may be, so that its energy cannot escape. An animal should be selected whose nature accords with that of the ceremony --- thus, by sacrificing a female lamb one would not obtain any appreciate quantity of the fierce energy useful to a Magician who was invoking Mars. In such a case a ram

A wolf would be still better in the case of Mars. See 777 for the correspondences between various animals and the "32 Paths" of Nature.

would be more suitable. And this ram should be virgin --- the whole potential of its original total energy should not have been diminished in any way.

It is quite clear from these quotes that Crowley was very involved in Freemasonry and that he advocated literal sacrifice of animals, followed by advocation of sacrifice of children which apologists then want to interpret not to be a literal sacrifice.

I would recommend you read the actual text itself in its entirety, but I think it is pretty clear.

11:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pete -- yes, it was a joke. "" -- as in the OSP, Office of Special Plans.

Probably only funny to me, but I always wanted to post something like that when I saw spam comments on here.

11:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Unfortunately, gnostic cabalists are everywhere. Child abuse is committed on a tremendous scale, generally by those that are supposedly there to protect children. A most overt and henious form of psychological child abuse is metered out by the Family courts and supported by a plethora of social workers, psychologists and others of the abuse industry. Any parent that wishes to alienate and severly restrict contact between the target parent and their child has a free hand and an army of supporters. Family courts, where there are no standards of proof, are, these days, akin to those of the Nazi and Stalinist era's where summary justice prevailed. No burden of proof is required to submit a child to a life of misery. Cases are tried beind closed doors away from the prying eyes of the public. History has shown that when is no scrutiny the "Justice" system will become corrupted and is. Of course a high proportion of the Judges and lawyers are Freemasons, as a most of those in higher office. Freemasonry is a Luciferian religion. Some of the highest elected officials are Luciferian, peadophilia, satanic rituals, SM abound.....
Just a cursory Google search will reveal the extent of abuse that is being perpetrated..

Never heard of Boys town and the Lawrence King connection. If you can get your hands on a copy of the documentary Conspiracy of Silence. Here's a link

Here's more

We are talking about a very small fragment of the tip of an enormous iceberg. Wake up from your comatose conditions and look around. finds that many of the organisations that purport to be in the business of protecting victims of sexual explotation or other forms of abuse are actually prepetuating it. The abuse industry is an industry, extremely well funded, which has an interest in creating victims, rather than protecting them. The more victims the greater the outcry for additional funding. Watch out for your kids!!

6:19 PM  
Anonymous Haeresis said...

It is quite clear from these quotes that Crowley was very involved in Freemasonry and that he advocated literal sacrifice of animals, followed by advocation of sacrifice of children which apologists then want to interpret not to be a literal sacrifice.

You could not be nmore incorrect- and before urging me to "read the entire work," I have not only done so, I own the edition that that website draws from, and the footnotes included RIGHT ON THE PAGE clearlyu indicate Crowely's real interpretation of "human" sacrifice:

'It is the sacrifice of oneself spiritually. And the intelligence and innocence of that male child are the perfect understanding of the Magician, his one aim, without lust of result. And male he must be, because what he sacrifices is not the material blood, but his creative power.' ..."

There you have it, from the same work, the explanatory passage that every would be slanderer leaves off of their outraged postings from the BOTL. Quote-mining any text will yield bits you can twist (the bible mentions human sacrifice in a positive way, even, but you will ever be caught at it by people who know better. Crowley developed an entire, transparent system of magick that has no element of sacrifice at all, be it bunny or virgin. His OTO rituals are published widely, and even the 'secret' ones are not so hard to discover.
More Crowley:
"To practice black magic you have to violate every principle of science , decency and intelligence . You must be obsessed with an insane idea of the importance of the petty object or your wretched and selfish desires ... I despise the thing to such an extent that I can hardly believe in the existence of people so debased and idiotic as to practise it."

7:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SEPKA quoted Augustine:

"The danger already exists that mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and confine man in the bonds of Hell."

Now that's food for thought. What if it's true? What if mathematics has been perverted? Math, after all, was once upon a time a part of the mysteries (see Pythagoras). Obviously it was felt that some things needed to be hidden from the "vulgar masses." Even nowadays the government schools IMO do a wretched job in teaching this subject.

8:02 PM  
Blogger PeopleNotSheeple said...

Starroute says:

Identical theories were being pushed by the John Birch Society in the 60's, got picked up by much of the New Right, and are still visible in the anti-NWO rants of people like Pat Robertson (as well as in the milder denunciations of "liberal elites" by the right in general.) ...

It was not difficult for conspiracists and bigots within the conspiracist wing of the Christian fundamentalist anticommunist movement to weave in threads from the conspiracy theories about Freemason and Jewish elites

....right-wing crap. ....

Blah blah blah.

C'mon dude, we're supposed to be smart here. Do you actually still believe in "left" and "right"? That the "lefties" are the good guys and the "righties" are the bad guys? That's crap!

My friend, you've been a victim of one of the Elite's favorite games. It's called Divide et Impera.

There is no Left or Right, only Top and Bottom. The guys on Top perpetuate the phony "Left/Right" divide in order to make you think I'M your enemy (I'm a "right winger," ya know) when your REAL enemies are the ones who are standing on both our backs!

"It's the capitalist pigs!"
"No, it's the damn commies!"

Capitalism = communism = capitalism = communism. The same oligarchs are behind BOTH systems. Both systems, in case you haven't noticed, are oligopolistic or monopolistic. Both (to the extent to which they are implemented) are systems of oppression for the many and privilege for the few. Both were and are supported by the International Bank$ter$ who own the magic machinery of money creation. That is not a "left-wing theory" nor a "right-wing theory" -- that is historical fact.

Wise up to the game, will ya?

You know one of the "right's" John Birch Society got its outrageous conspiracy tales about international bankers? One of their prime sources was a good FRIEND of the international bankers, a member of the Council on Foreign Relations in fact, named Carroll Quigley. Who wrote a book called Tragedy and Hope, in which he very plainly stated that in essence, the world is run by a small coterie of ...... get ready ..... international bankers!

I mean, c'mon, that's not even constestable. It's not even controversial.

Jews, so-called, are represented in the conspiracy, but so are so-called Christians. I happen to feel the fake Christian element is the predominant one, and it uses Jews as a front. Yeah, "the banksters" ARE behind poly-tricks -- but who's behind the banksters?

Robertson put his NWO book out in 1991 and for a while was heavily promoting it on "The 700 Club." I remember because I used to be a faithful "700 Club" watcher. This book -- which was ghostwritten, I've heard, by a homosexual gentleman -- in fact was one of my first introduction to a lot of the conspiracy lingo and the now-familiar suspects. From what I recall of its content, it was generally true as far as it went, basically just a rehashing of previous conspiracy books with Robertsons' own special spin. It was not anti-Jewish, though of course it mentioned the Rothschilds and Schiffs and maybe some other names.

However, after about a year, it seems, the book went out of print and he never said a whisper about it again. Why? Hell if I know.

Did Establishment scion Robertson have some genuine pangs of conscience and decide he was gonna fight this NWO, only to have somebody "get to" him? Was he offered a bunch of African diamonds if he'd shut up?

Or perhaps more sinisterly, was he just setting a honey trap to catch "right-wing conspiracists" and pick up a bunch of future guests for the concentration camps? I dunno. But something weird was going on with that book.

Now about Masonry. Masonry is shells within shells within shells within .... it is not a single organization -- not even a single rite is one organization, but many overlapping organizations. (Each degree within a rite is sort of its own discrete, and airtight, organization.) But because of that very secrecy, it would not be hard for high-level folks who know the architecture of the various lodges and rites to exert a very significant influence, if not absolute control.

Some of the shells are empty or composed only of social climbers, while others provide perfect hiding places for dark deeds. The case against Masonry is not, and never has been, that "all Masons are evil conspirators" but that Masonry enables evil conspiracies -- it cannot help but do this. It provides a potential system or space of secrecy where any and all evils can be conducted. Furthermore many evils by members of Masonry, which have of course been abetted by the inherent secrecy of the system, have been exposed. (Not necessarily in actual Masonic lodges or temples -- I suspect that most of the worst crimes are done in more isolated quarters, on private property or in secret govt installatiosn -- and of course, never in an official capacity, with a paper trail.)

Just as rats and roaches like dark places, so do the wicked men of this world love the darkness of secret societies. "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. ..." (John 3:19)

8:22 PM  
Blogger PeopleNotSheeple said...

Anon 10:32 -

As a person of color I say welcome (that is, if you're new) to this truth community. I hope you will continue to expose the truth about this and other matters and that this can be a part of your healing.

If you are familiar with Masonic signs and symbolism, I'm sure you will find it amongst your father's regalia, rituals, literature, etc. The KKK is basically an offshoot of SR Freemasonry. (And the "negro" lodge, Prince Hall, I believe is controlled by the SR as well. Both of my granddaddies were Prince Hall Masons.)

9:13 PM  
Anonymous Mary C. said...

This makes me ill! Sylvia Browne is right; this is hell!

I'm so sorry that some of you who have posted here have suffered awful things at the hands of your fathers and other relatives. I hope that you continue to heal and find peace.

10:43 PM  
Anonymous starroute said...

PeopleNotSheeple said:

C'mon dude, we're supposed to be smart here. Do you actually still believe in "left" and "right"? That the "lefties" are the good guys and the "righties" are the bad guys? That's crap!

My friend, you've been a victim of one of the Elite's favorite games. It's called Divide et Impera.

There is no Left or Right, only Top and Bottom. The guys on Top perpetuate the phony "Left/Right" divide in order to make you think I'M your enemy (I'm a "right winger," ya know) when your REAL enemies are the ones who are standing on both our backs!

But Bob Dylan says:

It's a restless hungry feeling
That don't mean no one no good,
When ev'rything I'm a-sayin'
You can say it just as good.
You're right from your side,
I'm right from mine.
We're both just one too many mornings
An' a thousand miles behind.

You *are* right from your side -- and I *am* right from mine. I guess the difference is that I'm not really talking about "right" vs. "left." I'm talking about right-wing conspiracy theory vs. left-wing conspiracy theory -- by which I mean something very specific.

As I understand it, right-wing conspiracy theory started as a reaction to the French Revolution by members of the elite who were in denial about the fact that the masses might actually choose to rise up against their rightful masters. Instead, they've spent 200 years looking to identify sinister plotters -- Protestants, Freemasons, Jews, Communists, homosexuals -- who might be deliberately attempting to wreck civilization by corrupting the common folk.

Since there were no such plotters, their theories got ever wilder and more outrageous. For example, instead of taking the fact that there were both Jewish bankers and Jewish revolutionaries as an indication that there was no Jewish plot, anti-Semites took it as proof of just how insidious the Jewish plot must be.

Left-wing conspiracy theories don't depend on inventing invisible enemies, or on assertions that groups with nothing in common are actually plotting together. Instead, it consists mostly of the very natural assumption that rich and powerful people tend to get together with other rich and powerful people to protect their money and power by fixing prices or assassinating presidents or whatever.

That's so obvious that nobody even bothers to call it conspiracy theory as long as you stay at the price-fixing end of things. It's only when you get into accusations that might actually do damage to the power elite that claims of conspiracy theory start being thrown around.

Now, I'll grant you that there's been a certain convergence between right-wing and left-wing conspiracy theory in recent years. The right seems more willing to see things in terms of class war. (As opposed to the fascist notion of society as an organic whole to be protected against sinister or even subhuman outsiders.) And the left is more willing to acknowledge that the Democratic Party and other liberal icons may be simply the kinder and gentler wing of a single power elite.

So let's agree on that much, if we can -- and then we'll just be left with the "one too many mornings and a thousand miles behind" part of the problem.

11:34 PM  
Anonymous Jim said...

Jeff, check out anonymous 1;09 (& 1:10). I think you are being set up like Michael Choud...(forget the spelling).

3:04 AM  
Anonymous Jim said...

Jeff, check out anonymous 1;09 (& 1:10). I think you are being set up like Michael Choud...(forgot the spelling).

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Thanks for the tip, Jim. I've deleted them.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

starroute said... If people are going to continue beating up on the Freemasons, I'd like to see some coherent theory of what foulness they think is going on, and why.

The blanket accusation is as worthless here as against Jews; indeed it appears only as a straw man to sink everything. But Masons aren't born into it, they have an extra layer of will to being what they are.
Compare the US Army. Ostensibly a noble instution. But, in myth and reality, powerful, identified with certain symbols and institutions. Is it preposterous that people lusting after power would not join the Army, even seek to influence it more than the average soldier, out of their interest in power itself?
The Freemasons themselves are as boring and innocent as any other group, but their organizations have acted as a cover for evil parties maligning their name, as in the P2 lodge. Inarguably, the Freemasons have been wrongly scapegoated as categorically evil, and in a situation of political convenience that seems more clumsily propagandistic than any Nazi or Soviet film: does that make it impossible that some people might have taken advantage of lodges as described?
Check out Casanova some time bemoaning the lack of respect the younger generation of Freemasons have for the secrets, it's kind of funny.

7:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

may i make a few comments having never "blogged" before i found this article fascinating however there are so many flaws. The main being that satanism is by no means the worship of satan it is however worship of the human form and the abolition of the 7 deadly sins as they completely undermine basic human instinct. Satanism is by any reasonable accounts the most sane form of(and i use the term very loosley) "religion". secondly the ambiguety surrounding wether the name "sarah" has any links freemasonry. May i say that any interpretations of this are based (entirely?) on pagan principles and the notion of the sacred female. Considering that true satanism holds nothing as sacred this cannot be said to have any links to freemasonry. Finally (for now at least anyway) so many of the comments here were based entirely on assumption that very few have any real foundation in truth.
I mean not to offend anyone and hope my comments are appreciated objectively but please post back if u have any comments on my thoughts.

3:47 PM  
Blogger amgar said...

My gramps is a freemason. Never seen a lodge, but I was molested by someone, they say my real dad, when I was 3.
My mother married a pedophile when was 12. You'd think freemasons who are supposed to be some sort of wonderful citizen would help out a family member. Nawp. My well off grands left me there. And after I stabbed the man in self defence my grandfather told people I was just jealous.

3:00 AM  
Anonymous CreditGuru said...

I can not find right words to express how scary this accident and story are. They seems like scary movie but it is real life.

11:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Im a bit nervous about doing this but... I obtained a management position within the company I worked for. I entered the online world because I was stressed and really just wanted a diversion from the "real" everyday world of responsibilities. My grandfather and great grandfather were freemasons and my mother has recently started opening up about her experiences during the second world war and time spent in the lodge and the sorts of things which the children were taught to chant etc.

Personally I made the mistake of meeting a man whom I thought was very well educated and interesting, witty arrogant an engineer and a freemason.

I don't know if I'm putting myself or my family in danger for discussing this but I can't live with it anymore.

I wasn't interested in an affair as I'm married. Some of his emails are very very vivid portrayals of multiple sex partners and female submission and degradation. I have them saved. I did meet him and what happened was nothing short of sex slave training. I am also an adult survivor of child abuse. I dont want to go into the entire sordid 16 month ordeal but it's fair to say this is not a lie, in whatever form and for whatever reason this is happening and I have been harassed and watched online because of it ever since I broke it off and determined to find a way to let people know.

9:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I expect this post will be deleted.

However what utter rubbish and lies, if it was not such a terrible subject it woul dbe laughable.

You must stop and think of real victims of abuse, dont post these sort of pathetic stories as it will have an knock on effect to genuine ones.

10:57 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What? To remove that post would remove the very serious and real warnings to women online, especially those who have been abused and are survivors.

I have to imagine your agenda here has little to do with the welfare of survivors!

4:55 PM  
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3:21 AM  
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1:59 AM  
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1:03 AM  
Anonymous cara mengobati kutil kelamin said...

I'm glad that was their cover, otherwise I might not have heard of them. That album is easily one of the best of 2001.

12:50 AM  
Anonymous cara mengobati sipilis said...

No, it just wants to feed. In some cases I am sure spirits are no more harmfull than mosquitos, but in other cases they want to own your energy for enternity.

12:58 AM  
Anonymous cara mengobati kutil kelamin said...

But the crux of the issue is the USE of the national emergency number 911, and our near-emergency number, 311, something that has never been explored adequately but is at the very heart of the "joke" of it all. Unfortunately this is cluttered by all sorts of semiotic noise, such as adding up the letters of various cities and so forth--something that can always be achieved, and makes all numerological research seem cheap

1:06 AM  
Anonymous cara mengobati sipilis said...

Komentar Anda telah disimpan.
Perlu beberapa saat untuk dapat menampilkan komentar Anda di situs pada posting asli.

1:15 AM  
Anonymous obat sipilis said...

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1:15 AM  
Anonymous Obat Kutil Kelamin said...

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12:37 AM  
Anonymous Cara Mengobati Kutil Kelamin said...

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12:40 AM  
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3:24 AM  
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4:32 AM  
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3:24 AM  
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12:58 AM  
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10:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cara Mengobati Kutil Kelamin Pada Pria dengan mengunakan obat kutil kelamin herbal sehingga tanpa Operasi sembuh total karena saya sangat takut apabila mendengar kata operasi apakah ada pengobatan kutil kelamin yang dapat dicegah dari rumah untuk menyingkirkannya? Apa ada perawatan yang baik untuk kutil kelamin manjur apakah ada solusi alami dalam perawatan yang untuk ibu sedang hamil

3:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

tersedia untuk memperlakukan kutil dengan sendiri? Mungkin ini semua pertanyaan yang mungkin Anda pertanyakan pada diri Anda sendiri jika saat ini Anda memilki kutil Berikut dibawah ini pembahasan dari cara mengobati kutil kelamin tanpa operasi dengan menggunakan obat kutil kelamin tradisional paling manjur aman untuk ibu sedang hamil

3:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

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3:22 AM  

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