Friday, June 03, 2005

Debunking and debugging

Oh teachers are my lessons done? I cannot do another one.
They laughed and laughed and said, "Well, child -
Are your lessons done?"
- Leonard Cohen


Debunk should be a good word - who wants bunk? - but it's not, because debunking is too often a disingenuous exercise. So we need a new word, for something our thinking needs in order to stay intellectually viable. I suggest debug.

For examples of both, let's look out on the edge of the High Weird, and UFOs, where debunking runs amuck. Yet no subject more deserves a healthy debugging.

One of the defining characteristics of the UFO phenomenon is apparent absurdity, and there are many minds - most of them not on the payroll of alphabet agencies - who balk at letting its absurdity stand. Something rational must be made to account for everything, even when the rational explanations are themselves ridiculous.

For instance, consider the 1959 sightings at the Mission Station of All Saints in Boianai, New Guinea. The case is remarkable for the number and credibility of the witnesses, who included Reverend William Gill (regarded by all investigators as of unimpeachable character), the duration of the sightings, and their considerable absurdity.

Reverend Norman Cruttwell, who had known Gill since his own arrival in New Guinea in 1946, wrote a report of the first event on June 26, reproduced in The Edge of Reality by J Allen Hynek and Jacques Vallee:

Father Gill had just had his dinner and came out of the front door of the Mission House.... He casually glanced at the sky and looked for Venus, which was conspicuous at the time. In his own words, "I saw Venus, but I also saw this sparkling object which to me was peculiar because it sparkled, and because it was very, very bright, and it was above Venus and so that caused me to watch it for a while, and then I saw it descend towards us." ... Eventually it came quite close and hovered at a height which Father Gill estimated between 300 and 400 feet.... He estimates its apparent diameter as about five inches at arm's length. Stephen [a native teacher] said that if he put his hand out closed it would cover about half of it.

Father Gill states that it changed from a brilliant white light, when it was far off, to a dull yellow, or perhaps pale orange, when it was close. When asked whether he thought it was metallic, he answered, "Well, it appeared solid, certainly not transparent or porous; we just assume that it was metallic from our experience of things that travel and carry men."

All witnesses agree that it was circular, that it had a wide base and a narrower upper deck, that it had a type of legs beneath it, that it produced at times a shaft of blue light which shone upwards into the sky at an angle of about forty-five degrees and that four "human figures" appeared on top....

Here are Father Gill's comments on the "men":

As we watched it men came out from this object, and appeared on the top of it, on what seemed to be a deck... There were four men in all, occasionally two, then one, then three, then four; we noted the various times the men appeared.... The men appeared to be illuminated not only by this light [emanating from the centre of the deck], but also by a sort of glow which completely surrounded them as well as the craft. The glow did not touch them, but there appeared to be a little space between their outline and the light.

The object returned the following night, accompanied by two smaller, stationary UFOs. Father Gill reported again that "We watched figures appear on top - four of them - there is no doubt that they were human.... they were occasionally bending over and raising their arms as though adjusting or 'setting up' something no visible. One figure seemed to be standing, looking down at us (a group of about a dozen)."

Father Gill then did something perfectly natural:

I stretched my arm above my head and waved. To our surprise the figure did the same. Ananias waved both arms over his head, then the two outside figures did the same. Ananias and self began waving our arms and all four seemed to wave back. There seemed to be no doubt that our movements were answered. All the mission boys made audible gasps (of either joy or surprise, perhaps both).

As dark was beginning to close in, I sent Kodawa for a torch and directed a series of long dashes towards the UFO. After a minute or two of this, the UFO apparently acknowledged by making several wavering motions back and forth (in a side-direction, like a pendulum).... After a further two or three minutes the figures apparently lost interest in us, for they disappeared below deck.

What does a debunker do with this bizarre contact story? Donald Menzel, from his study in the United States, concluded Gill must have been myopic, and was actually looking at Venus (the other witnesses must have been persuaded by their high regard for Gill). Hynek travelled to New Guinea and interviewed Gill and others, who laughed at Menzel's armchair rationalizing. Hynek left persuaded something inexplicable had happened.

A debunker fabricates an explanation that accords with conventional wisdom, which is taken as an excuse to investigate no further by those who are made uncomfortable by the material. It must be dozens of times in recent months that I've read, with regard to Satanic Ritual Abuse, Oh, that's been debunked, from people who know little more about the subject than a ten-year old TV movie starring James Woods. When figures of authority, even James Woods, claim to debunk an issue, that's enough for many people to check it off as something about which they needn't concern themselves, even those who regard themselves as naturally distrustful of authority. (I see that the SRA debunkers at Democratic Underground are out in force today, to register their incredulity to the story "Satanist paedophile ring 'ritually raped up to 25 children'". "This case just reeks of 'I wanna be on TV,' writes one poster, whose avatar is a pentagram. "I'm going to take a lot of convincing before I'm going to buy this tale." For some, there will never be enough evidence to let go of the security blankets of consoling lies that tell them Don't worry, such things don't really happen.)

Debunkers are True Unbelievers, whose agenda is to discredit inquiry into subjects which do not conform with their presumptions of the universe. In this regard, the incredulous and the credulous travel the same circle, chasing each other's tails, and have little to do with critical thinking. Which is what we should be about.

Debuggers are different. Rather then quash inquiry, they sharpen and refine it. They fix the broken links in our brains and expose our faulty reasoning. And we need our thinking debugged. And we ought to be able to debug the thinking of others without being accused, reflexively, of being "debunkers."

To many UFO true believers - those who grok to Mulder's "I want to believe" flying saucer poster, and uncritically presume the extraterrestrial hypothesis - Jacques Vallee is a "debunker." Except he's not. His thinking is both more radical, and better founded, than theirs. In Revelations, Vallee recounts an encounter with other researchers that could be described as a valiant attempt at debugging. Bill Moore and Linda Moulton Howe are telling him about a joint US and alien underground base in New Mexico, the size of Manhattan, and he stops them short with the question, "Who takes out the garbage?"

The group looked at me in shock. There is a certain unwritten etiquette one is supposed to follow when crashed saucers and government secrecy are discussed....you are not supposed to point out contradictions in the stories. Questions must always be directed at the higher topics...not the practical details. In other words, it is not done to ask any question that has a plain, verifiable answer.

"Well, it's a fair question, isn't it? Who takes out the garbage?" I repeated. "You just told me there was a city the size of Manhattan underneath New Mexico. They will need water. They will generate solid waste. There should be massive changes in the environment. Where is the evidence for it?"

When Vallee later asks "How do you know any of this is real?" he is told by Howe "I've spoken to a military officer in the Pentagon." Here again is an example of an investigator who believes there is a massive government cover-up yet accepts uncritically the word of a government official simply because it's what she wanted to hear. (And Moore, as we've seen, subsequently admitted to having been used by the Air Force to disseminate disinformation among UFO researchers.)

Yesterday morning I was walking along Danforth Avenue to meet a friend for breakfast. To the east, the sky was blue. The western sky had been painted with parallel white lines, running north to south, which were beginning to spread on the wind. I told myself, they're going to start laying down the east to west pattern soon, and almost as soon, I noticed the two white planes, doing just that. After breakfast, looking up, the city sky was a gauze of white. "Overcast," I would have called it, if I hadn't known better.

Now, what did I see? And, significantly, why could I predict it? I don't know what I saw, but I see it often enough that I can anticipate its pattern. I don't know if chemtrails are Edward Teller's "sunscreen." He wrote that "the simplest plan [to reduce global warming] is to put into the high atmosphere small particles that scatter away one or two percent of the sunlight." But it certainly seems to resemble it. And, to my thinking, it is only a campaign with such a purpose that could gain the tacit cooperation of so many different governments, and remain a secret for fear of spreading panic - albeit justified - at the fragility of our environment.

A chemtrail debunker will try to tell me either (a) I don't see anything, or (b) I've seen it all my life. I used to argue with such people. But time is too short, and things are too weird to waste my time on them. I don't know what it is, but I know it is, and I know I didn't see this ten years ago.

So, debug me, please. Help me to understand what I'm seeing. Even a prosaic, non-scary explanation will do, so long as it's the right one. But try to debunk what I see with my own eyes, and can predict with my experience, and you have nothing to say to me. Just as I, likely, have nothing to say to you.

58 Comments:

Blogger spooked said...

Jeeze, Jeff-- why do we have to understand everything? Why can't we just wonder at the marvel of it all?

:) Just kidding.

I have no answers for your questions except that there are many things we just don't understand yet about this universe. All we can do is try to understand and it is a life-long pursuit.

1:49 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

speaking of, have you seen the latest socorro/zamora stuff?

http://rrrgroup.blogspot.com/2005/06/socorro-insignia-and-what-lonnie_02.html

not sure what to make of it, just yet, but they promise more evidence forthcoming.

2:48 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jeff, about the chemtrails, maybe they're spraying this stuff:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1894&e=2&u=/ap/20050601/ap_on_sc/trust_hormone

On the other hand, maybe I'm just being paranoid. After all, it's only a potent, psychoactive chemical gas that increases people's gullibility! How could such a thing ever be exploited for sinister purposes?

Jerky

2:51 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Or, perhaps there is simply more air traffic over Toronto than previously, resulting in more condensation trails than before? Or maybe you're just looking up more?
Love, your wife. xoxo

2:58 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

P.S. We need milk.

3:00 p.m.  
Blogger Jeff Wells said...

Interesting, Jeremy. The Hughes logo looks reddish, and Zamora said the lettering was red. (Though there's no stylized "H" in his configuration.) He also said the occupants appeared the size of "children." (Maybe lightweight "jockeys" for the lightweight experimental craft?)

From what I've read, the flight of the craft was rather conventional: firey exhaust, unexceptional speed, no hyperdimensional tricks. So it makes interesting conjecture.

Jerky, I think your link's broken.

3:11 p.m.  
Blogger Jeff Wells said...

Geez, honey - not in front of the gang!

PS: I'll pick up milk.

3:11 p.m.  
Blogger Jeff Wells said...

Sorry Jerky, your link is fine. Spraying "Trust Hormone" eh? I don't know why, but for some reason, I feel like I have to take your word for it.

3:15 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Chemtrails didn't used to happen. We all remember what blue skies looked like.

They're definately happening now.

The difference between reactions like mine, and like my now-grown-up teenaged daughter, who asked, "But, Mom, why would the government want to hurt us?" is what we're talking about.

You're either with us, or with the Sith... --MaryK

3:23 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That trust hormone sent shivers... what could any government do with Prozac and the hormone. No one would complain about their horrible lives or ever question anything. Buy yourselves good water filters!

3:25 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Next time you notice planes doing that, you could grab some binoculars, get the tail numbers, and look them up on airliners.net to try to tell what kind of plane they are.

So, Jeff, how does the pattern you saw differ from what you'd expect to see in the city sky over any busy international airport? Is it just that there's a criss-cross pattern?

Air travel has increased a lot over the last 20 years. The recent move toward regional jets also means there's a larger number of smaller commercial craft flying.

I guess I just don't understand the evidence that chemtrails are something other than normal planes flying around. Is it just that it's more common to see lots of contrails in the sky than it used to be?

3:51 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

B'D--

How do you know? Why is it indisputable?

I don't follow your second paragraph, either. What would dictate that a plane leaving chemtrails couldn't also leave normal contrails? Once it's done spraying, or whatever, it's still propelled by jets, right?

For that matter, why couldn't the difference in the trails staying or not staying be a function of a plane flying through more or less humid air? How long contrails stay around depends on air conditions; that's nothing new.

The only time I can recall seeing lots of parallel trails in the sky was over the coast of down east Maine. This wasn't surprising, though, since that's the main corridor for traffic between the northeast US and Europe.

Please don't take this as kneejerk, establishment-defending "debunking." I'm genuinely curious; I just don't understand what people are seeing that's different from normal air traffic.

4:24 p.m.  
Blogger Jeff Wells said...

Machine Elf, for me it's chiefly the cross-hatch pattern and their persistance: how the trails spread and form a white blanket.

I've seen other jet aircraft flying the same skies, at seemingly the same altitude, without leaving so much as a transitory contrail.

I don't know what's going on, but I'd have to pretend to believe that nothing is.

4:51 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great site and great, relevant article.
One thing, though: i work with non-traditional orgone technologies to counter chemtrails, weather mod, etc.

If i build something big and powerful to break a drought, say, during the warmer months THIS usually COOLS off the weather for many weeks. Orgone has totally changed the summers in my region; made them much milder and wetter.

If the gov't really wants to cool things down, why don't they follow suit? :-)

Some of us are fairly convinced that the chem is to TRAP HEAT in, and exacerbate global warming.

5:00 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"the simplest plan [to reduce global warming] is to put into the high atmosphere small particles that scatter away one or two percent of the sunlight."

Sounds plausible if you could cover enough of the sky enough of the time in order to bring about a delta in absorbed radiated energy. Now for the debugging: does it hold that, since it seems that this phenomenon occurrs predominately over urbanized areas, consistant coverage over most urban areas with access to militarized aircraft, could indeed constitute enough thermal reflection to offset warming trends, let alone the anthropormorphic contributions to global warming inherent in those ongoing flights? I think not.

Now for what may require debugging: if a government were to have fairly decent proof that the petroleum inputs to our society are undergoing a significant change in terms of availibilty, with respect to demand, and therefore are going to henceforth increase in price without recovery, would it not endanger the means by which major centers of popualtion feed their respective populations?

Since it can be shown that, in the US at least, the average peice of food requires 10 calories of petroleum inputs, mean, for every calorie contained therin, and that same peice of food travels 1500 miles, mean, a response to the coming increase in cost to produce food would be to produce the food closer to cities in order to stave off public unrest? Further calculate in the science that has prooven that as cities grow and become heat sinks, they create weather patterns that tend to shun natural rainfall.

Now, if I were looking for a reasonable explanation of chemtrails, and given the large association with at least the effort to seed rain clouds, one should be able to have their conspiratorial cake and eat it to with proof based acquaintences by positing that what you see is real, it is a less than publically advertised effort to mitigate what is a likely part of the fallout of our dependancy upon unceasing cheap petroleum inputs.....

5:19 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello,

I have been lurking in the background for awhile now. My first post. This link explains chemtrails to me, and it is not pleasant reading. Keep up the good work, Jeff.

http://www.cheniere.org/correspondence/050803.htm

5:56 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are there men in positions of responsibility and power who would make a decision like that, to spray something foreign in the upper atmosphere in order to mitigate anthropogenic climate forcing?
Yes there are.
So is it possible to do that, as far as the chemistry/physics goes?
Yep. Or probably for sure yep.
So then it's simply a question of are they. Or we, depending on your affinities.
But a question that never gets asked, that has its roots in the discomfort a lot of us feel when we look at the probabilities, is - How did we get to a moral place where these kinds of decisions would have to be made? Why does the whole thing feel wrong?
Can we trace this back to a simpler time, so that the ethical components are clearer?
What is it, overall, besides the size of the mistake(s), that's so disturbing?
Cowardice, or something murkier that has no human analog. The constant rationalizing excuses of cowardice. Justifying one inhuman act after another because without it you would have had to leave this realm and enter the next, or disappear.
That's how we got here, to this place and time where the color of the sky is in the hands of little men with no vision but their own survival. It's the cumulative build-up of wrong living, the steady rate of metastasis in systems we lived inside of without seeing, as the deferred consequences of weakness and self-protection gathered at the boundaries of control.
If there are chem-trails being sprayed they're because of ACF/global warming, which in turn is because of the heedless consumption of chemical/fossil fuels, which is because of the unwritten code of "anything that works is fine, until proven otherwise" and damn the consequences, which is the moral code of cowardice, which is how cowards came in from the margins of human living to be the archetypes of the present, the central figures of the race now, supplanting what we once were with this - a desperate whimpering creature, whose highest qualities have been repudiated in the name of survival and the possibility of snatch-and-grab immortality. Gollem.
Cannibalism, the consumption of seed corn, selling your children to the enemy, amoral pragmatism in all its degrees - they each have that formula of stark necessity, that hinges on the valence of the primacy of self. And they all have consequences - those who go there become something else.
There's nothing humble about spraying false clouds across the sky to block the sun. Maybe humility's what's been missing all along.

6:10 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's a fascinating article suggesting that chemtrails are not a normal physical operation:
http://tinyurl.com/6ewvc

The planes move too fast, there are way too many of them (not just over cities but all over), they violate airspace with impunity, they reach supersonic speed with no one hearing a sonic boom, and they have no detectable support base -- that is, no one is "taking out the garbage." Yet there they are!

6:23 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wives are natural debunkers (not debuggers). My wife is the same way. "Foucault's Pendulum" devotes a good deal of time to this concept, and in the end almost convinces me.

Anyway, I don't know anything about chemtrails. I would think that if so many chemtrail sorties were being flown over major metropolitan areas, you'd eventually have some military dudes letting the subject slip, or private pilots discussing the subject.

How about sending someone with a pilot's license up there to take a sample?

As a computer programmer, I do a lot of debugging, in the classical sense of the word. Having a theory or an intuition about what caused an issue can be helpful, but it can also be misleading -- the best debuggers build up as much data about a system and a system's state as possible before testing theories against it. Obviously data is harder to come by when we walk in to a conspiracy theory with the assumption that data is being forcefully withheld from us, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to gather any data. Look at Vallee's own work on defining the light intensities of UFO reports, for example. You can fault his methodology, perhaps, but if you accept the methodology, it removes the need for wild speculation and replaces it with focused investigation.

In this case, good data would be: testimony of expert eyewitnesses, e.g. pilots; analysis of air samples; analysis of radiation levels; identification of planes; tracking of plane take-off/touch-down sites (this last might take some work, but one can imagine a human chain where each participant is assigned to watch a given sector).

I'm not trying to debunk this at all, I just haven't seen any good data. Per your blog title, we need to be rigorous with our intuitions.

6:47 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

wow, ran posted his comment at the same time as mine, and it actually addresses what I was saying. Nice! Check it out.

6:55 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can't even get people to admit that the sky is DIFFERENT than it used to be, that the sun is intensely brighter and whiter than when we were young. Cognitive dissonance.

Most people just can't handle 'hey, look at this series of photos of a formation of multiple planes spewing a grid pattern of persistent contrails that subsequently spread out into an oily cloud deck rippled and scalloped with scalar weather mod signatures...'

When the first spray plane came over my office in 1999, it was low, much lower than later when they'd evolved their method, and it was very in your face. I made a coworker come look and said 'what's up with THAT?' I didn't know WHAT it was, but I knew it was weird, and not right.

She covered her face and ran out of the room. Cognitive dissonance.

p.s. I'm going with 'gene mod'

http://www.planetquo.com/Chemtrails-Suppression-of-Human-Evolution

"Humanity is evolving, emerging from the past millennia of abysmal darkness and oppressin. The power structure, knowing its reign is about to end, has worked tirelessly in a last ditch effort to keep us suppressed. Chemtrails are but one small weapon they are employing to accomplish this.

Their ultimate goal is a New World Order, global totalitarianism and a reinstatement of their absolute power. The NWO will fail if citizens become genetically empowered to wake up and fight with superhuman powers against tyranny. This is already occurring, and chemtrails are ultimately ineffectual at preventing the inevitable.

Few know the chemtrail program's true purpose, and most of those implementing it have been told lies. They believe the "mass vaccination" scenario, that what they are doing is beneficial to citizens. Unfortunately this illusion, like all others created by the power structure, shall fall away in due time.

That time is rapidly approaching. Chemtrails are merely delaying what is destined, and what is destined is the glorious revival of human sovereignty and victory of the human spirit."

7:20 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So, safely presuming there is a faction of people who are in the know about chemtrails, yet they're being fed lies... where's their blog discussing just WTF is happening? Surely, the lies sustaining those involved can only keep their attention for so long... some of the odd happenings we see, which makes absolutely no sense, may be in-play to convince the involved... maybe, that their projects warrant their full, unwavering attention?

fascinating post. a conspiracy with which I'm not too familiar.

Now, that group of scientists who have suicided themselves... any tie-in?

7:58 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I thought you may be interested in this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,2763,1499191,00.html

8:46 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

shelby- I believe we are going to here more about this in the near future . Has anyone noticed that you never have heard one comment from a weatherperson as to why their forcasts go out the window in 4 hours after the chemtrails are dropped ?

12:36 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For all the attention that this blogger gives to UFO's, I don't see much discussion of the notion of them being strictly man-made.

One should look into the work of Viktor Schauberger, the Horton Brothers, Wilbert Smith, and the Grumann TR-3B, and consider just how likely the scenario is.

A leaked CIA memo from the early '50's discussed the possibilities for exploiting the public belief in UFOs being manned by aliens. Unfortunately, most UFO researchers chose to overlook that memo, as it bumped up against their own dogma.

As for chemtrails, it is difficult to debunk that which we can see right above our heads. What really happens is that folks debunk themselves so as to avoid the awful truth. Mulder's dopplegangers, Muffy and Buffy, should have a poster depicting chemtrails that says "I Do NOT Want To Believe".

12:42 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

suggestion only,chemtrail ? Living in Northern Europe, it is so often raining here that we would not notice any "chemtrail", but on our occasional clear days, the contrails of passenger jets, quickly dissapates, no hanging patterns, i have never seen the hanging patterns you often read about from your part of the world. From the Ibearian Penensula i have seen the sky clouded by smoke from forest fires, but again passenger jet contrails dissapate quickly and no patterns suggesting a spraying operation. I think those of you doing research should get out of North America for some comparisons.

1:12 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Outside of North America, we at the yahoo group Cloudbusters have members in Australia, Denmark, Italy, Germany, Japan, Singapore, Phillippines, South Africa, and especially Great Britain that report (and fight) chemtrails.

Consider yourself very lucky if you don't see them.

Or perhaps look closer.

1:37 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from Ajax,
"How did we get to a moral place where these kinds of decisions would have to be made? Why does the whole thing feel wrong?
Can we trace this back to a simpler time, so that the ethical components are clearer?"

Sure, it all goes back to the time of Genesis, and a place known as the garden of Eden. You know, the disregarding of God in order to do one's own thing. Ah yes. 'The simpler time' when all was new and good, and everything was in delicate but perfect balance, which the Creator called 'good'. The ethical components at that time were all clear: "But of the fruit of the tree ... thou shat not eat." Then Self, Mammon, and Man became gods, and henceforth the inevitable and inescapable result has been evil. Things have been 'feeling wrong' ever since. But now, fiat finance and the Tower of Techology is bringing everything into sharp convergence. But the Creator is not dead and neithter does he sleep. The foundational hope of the Creator's ultimate pre-eminence is the substrate truth giving meaning and purpose to the fabric of reality no matter how bizarre and turbulent the conlcluding segment of the Twilight Zone becomes.

2:23 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Imagine what lies the chickens and cows tell themselves.

3:23 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Chemtrails has too much of the scent of diversion.

3:30 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jeff will be right back as soon as he gets milk.

8:00 a.m.  
Blogger Jeff Wells said...

"For all the attention that this blogger gives to UFO's, I don't see much discussion of the notion of them being strictly man-made."

I have written about covert deception re UFOs in posts like Is it the Future Yet? and No Time to Think, but I don't think the strictly human explanation can account for all the data. It's been too weird, and too prolific, for too long for it to all be black ops.

8:47 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great post, you should collect all your quotables in a kind of 'Rigorous Analects' ("A debunker fabricates an explanation that accords with conventional wisdom, which is taken as an excuse to investigate no further by those who are made uncomfortable by the material.")

Given that my own political beleifs are highly unconventional, I hesitate to crap on anyone elses. That said, here comes the crapping. I have never been a fan of the whole chemtrails idea, it just makes no sense no matter what explanation you give it; there are easier ways the govt(s) could do anything chemtrails supposedly do. The links I followed frankly sucked. The notion that spraying regularly is preventing global catastrophe is ludicrous. If doing nothing meant humanity would ide out in 20 years we would see more than just a modest increase in rates of skin cancer. The notion than its a scheme for population reduction is equally stupid. If they were spraying an intentionally carcinogenic or sterylizing agent over major urban areas (hardly the most efficient mode of disbursal) the data to support that would be regional and overwhelming. Show me the study. And another thing, can't these people with "insider information" write coherently? Has years of working with chemtrails impared their grammatical sense? I especially love the first link with the "insider" scientist who cannot spell innoculate (I am a TERRIBLE speller yet I caught the 1 n, and it wasn't a typo he did it twice) and does not know the plural of formula (formulae). His descriptions of ozone and barium are clearly just selectively quoted google searches and have little or nothing to do with the topic.

In summation I really don't think chemtrails (not the topic of the post) should occupy the discourse of an otherwise interesting and edifying comment board.

9:45 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For some reason a particularly fascinating topic to bring up... I don't think about chemtrails too much because, with all the other obvious corruption and misery we come across with regularity, the idea of mysterious government agencies spraying chemicals into the sky seems a secondary preoccupation. However I too have been noticing an increase in regularity and frequency of chemtrails in the sky above my city. I too remember a time when the sky was clearer and brighter, weather more varied, planes didn't silently "seed clouds" from the upper atmosphere. It simply adds one more layer to the "other reality" that a lot of us appear to be living in.

11:28 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For the guy who was asking if there's any correlation between this and the scientist suicides -- the Holmestead site thinks so:

Keep in mind that the "Star Wars" program and "chemtrails" overlap. The Star Wars program called "Excalibur" uses all the physics connected to the chemtrail effects. Excalibur is a nuclear pumped x-ray LASER system, whose basic operations are the same as those for the Sun's radiation acting on the fluorides in the upper atmosphere. They are so close to each other that both of them use the "shield" term.


Not saying I buy it, but since I'm wandering where angels fear to tread anyway...

2:01 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey kids. Long time reader, first time caller here. I'm glad the chemtrail issue has finally been addressed, as prior to this site, it didn't fit into my belief system.

I'm just wondering what all you out there think about HAARP and that whole mess up in Alaska. I recall reading something about a direct correlation between these contrails changing the ionosphere, or something or other, to enable the weather under the control of HAARP. That, my friends, would be some freaky shit.

And Jeff, thanks for this site and all the crazy shit you throw up on here. My conspiracy knowledge is usually fed by the tabloid sites, and your reasoned analysis and intellectual self-awareness is damn refreshing.

Just don't go all David Icke on me, man. Secret aryan societies? Sure. Smoking DMT and talking to alien elves? Yeah, Ok. Ritual sacrifices opening up trans-dimensional portals? Allright...but shape-shifing lizards is where I draw the line.

Peace, y'all.

2:51 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have to say, I strongly doubt the global shield theory of chemtrails. And the reason is, I live in Europe. I lived in France until recently, and I'm currently living in Norway. I had never heard about the chemtrails phenomenon before I started to read about it on various "conspiracy" sites on the net. My first reaction was to discount it as paranoia, but of course I was also curious and started to pay attention to the sky, the airplanes to be found there, and their contrails. And I have to say, after observing the skies over France and Norway for about a year, I think I can say with near certainty: there are no chemtrails in either country. Both the summers of 2003 (the heat wave) and 2004 (more normal temperatures) had plenty of days of completely cloud-free skies over France. I've never seen a con-trail that didn't dissipate in a normal manner. There are no "mystery planes". I've been looking for them, but I just don't see them. I'm not doubting your stories from North America, I'm just doubting the existance of a global programme, as one would think France and Norway would take part in it.

4:52 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, Bin'Dare,

I have generally liked your posts and when I made that comment I was not refering to the weather modification page, which I actually found quite interesting (and yes it is very clearly a real business). Still I don't see the need to tie it into chemtrails which strike me as a phenomenon it would be easy to compile hard data on.

As far as this informant goes, I happen to live in Oakland and I can surely find an obit if you give me the name, though I don't think you would (possibly for perfectly justifiable reasons)

Also, inoculate DOES only have 1 n and thank you all for not flaming me about it; rather embarrasing really. I was feeling so high and mighty...

5:10 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jeff, the chemical particles will be hidden in plain sight. Look into the additives used in all commercial airline fuel. Look for anything that is government regulated or is used as a de facto standard by all providers. You will find your "flouride" soon enough. When you do ask any chemistry professor at your local college how this substance will react with the heat of the jet engines and its expulsion into the atmosphere. Therein will be the real answer. For whatever you are looking, it is being manufactured in flight. Jet engines are the factories.

6:48 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One could account for the accounts and the counter-accounts as to what is real by combining the books "Art of War", "Flatland", and "1984". Plus, much, perhaps most of the world believes blindly and absolutely in phenomena that cannot be verified, and prays to these phenomena on a daily, even hourly basis. Logic and reason have as little space and place in so-called "modernity" as they had (have)in tribal societies. The CIA has been involved in myth-making--I would arguing that this is its most important activity, and always has been--on a grand scale, to circumscribe what can be thought of as "reality."

Also, it is purely and completely impossible to use the Internet to obtain "truth", though I certainly adore this site because of the idea that more and more are connecting more and more dots. But with the vast resources the CIA (read: the CIA as the part we see) have at their command--many respected academics, scientists, high-level elected officials, religious figures, and etc.--it is possible to creat precisely the realities of the Liberal Left, the Establishment Right,the far right, the far left, and indeed numerous schools of pseudo-thought that in some cases (e.g. Cultural Studies) have become entire "scientific" realms of inquiry. This is nothing new--it is the sine qua non of all command societies.

Anyway, the conspiracy of 911 can be as vast as the Santa Claus one. How many child debunkers do you see? My daughter is 9, and she still wants to believe. She thinks if she stops believing, she'll get less gifts, perhaps. They see us as children.

Amen for free thinking and anarchism (but, the elite kill off the anarchists who have integrity, and use the rest to assassinate their enemies; then they create more anarchists who don't know they've been created. At least they knew that Czolgosz was a plant).

8:52 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wes: speaking of good data, has anyone heard of Clifford Carnicom?

http://www.carnicom.com/

This guy has amazing amounts of research as well as a documentary on his site. He calls the chemtrail phenomenon "aerosol crimes"

I don't know what to make of any of this, but Carnicom seems to be a pretty sincere if nothing else...

9:13 p.m.  
Blogger Jeff Wells said...

Thanks bin'dare.

Here's a direct link to Carnicom's orb page. Videos can be downloaded there. (At least for Real Player; Windows Media Player link seems broken.)

He writes

"It is appropriate and proper to consider the existence of such orbs and/or other anomalous objects in the context of the research that has been conducted for more than five years on the nature, origin, applications and purposes of the aerosol operations."

10:34 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

12-stranded DNA? For fuck’s sake that is so stupid I don’t know whether to laugh or kill myself.

Jeff, is it just me? Or was the point of your article that one should, when thinking about a problem, also think about how one thinks about said problem? That is, to cultivate an awareness of the myriad of interactions that naturally occur between one’s thought patterns and the issue at hand?

I remember from high school that the worst answer you could give was “I don’t know”. Any answer would be better than none, but…

Thinking requires uncertainty. A debugger assumes that all code is buggy, whereas a debunker assumes that other codes are buggy but his is peachy [here is where a little humility goes a long way]. Having opinions and beliefs is NOT thinking.

All code is buggy.

I’ve noticed on this and other forums that some issues [usually the ones with a plethora of “facts” in which to get lost, like chemtrails and 911] summon swarms of aggressively certain posters, like flies on a turd, all buzzing at each other and nobody noticing “Oh. I’ve got shit all over me. How did that happen?”

What I mean, and what I think [hope] Jeff meant, is DON’T TOUCH THE TURDS. THEY TOUCH YOU BACK. Hover, smell and buzz all you like, but don’t settle. Or at least be aware of where you landed.

Here’s where I stand on the steaming chemtrail cowpat:

1. people believe that chemtrails exist, yet
2. the authorities pretend chemtrails don’t exist, which means that
3. chemtrails are not in our best interests, so
4. regardless of the details, the only thing to be done is to STOP THEM DOING IT.

The details may reveal who shat, what they ate, and so on, but the point is this: We are being shat upon and it’s time to take out the shitters. Ask yourself this, then: Will complete knowledge of the details [oh my precious, elusive truth] be of any use at all in taking out the shitters? Doubt it.

All code is buggy.

As soon as you know, you don’t.

[sorry for talking so much shit, but I’m not the only one]

11:41 p.m.  
Blogger Et in Arcadia ego said...

Jeff,

I would like to thank you for your insightful and thought provoking discussions. I have struggled most of my life to penetrate what I felt intuitively was a false representation of nearly every aspect of my percieved life as an American from early childhood. This has led me to many places; drug addiction, social apathy, extreme depression and in general the conviction that as one of the unwashed masses despite everything suggested, autonomy would never be mine not because I lack the capacity to achieve it, but simply becuase those in true power have never felt it neccessary for me and the rest of us to actually achieve it.

Having gotten that out of the way(and I apologize for the indulgence), I would like to make some brief observations;

1 - Regarding 'Deep Sheild':

After a hazy night of seemingly endless link hopping, I stumbled across a monolithical site that had an overwhelming body of text that took several hours to digest. These were the words verbatim of the 'Deep Shield' individual mentioned by a previos poster in this thread. You can find the collected essays of 'Deep Shield; here:

http://members.aol.com/doewatch/

Acording to this page:

http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/shieldproject.html

The 'Deep Shield' individual was reported a suicide in September 2004. The Doewatch's last entries were in 2004, and while I cannot remember the location, I recently ran across another site with what appeared to be a new essay from this individual, thus suggesting the fact that said individual is NOT deceased at all. If you are able to navigate the entire collected essays available at doewatch you will find what I would gently suggest to be dissinformation on many subjects as well as grammatical errors that are incongruent to a scientist of the standing the author cites himself as being. On doewatch, he names himself as 'Jim Phepls' who some of you may recognize as a character in the show Mission Impossible. The essays occasionally decay into semi-religious rants that appear to be employed to escort the reader to a conclusion, but I am unable to determine what it actually is. Either this is CIA-type disinformation that overshoots a more mundane explanation in favor of something spectacular that will have the effect of dispelling the reader's interest or the author himself is one step away from being craven; some of what he says is just simply rediculous to hear from a professed scientist. The root of many explantions from him point in the direction of Super Volcanos(a sensationalist term coined in the last 2 years; there is NO actual term employed by Volcanologists) and volcanically related toxins as the real message of Jesus Christ, and suggested the Arc of the Covenant contained volcanic poisons that when combined created a devastating gas..

Yes, you read me correctly..The beauty of this is that you can verify this for yourself by reading any of the sprawling dialouges presented on the doewatch site by clicking on the link I have provided. The entire body can be found here:

http://www.gargoylemechanique.com/chama/chemtrails_overview.html

I encourage any comments regading doewatch as I am at this point highly suspect. One other chemtrail site employing his dialouge:

http://www.chemtrailpatrol.com/cp_deep_shield.htm

What was for me a dead giveaway not to trust what this person says is this:

"If you pursue these lines of inquiry, you will see the Shield Project as it really is.

A friend"

After a bludeoning tour through psuedoscience, we at last arrive at the gist: Trust Them.

No thanks.
___________

2 - Regarding Chemtrails directly: I can't honestly say what I believe they are; there's disinformation regarding them all over the net, as we see from above. I can only speak from my own observations:

I grew up in Miami, Florida no less than 5 miles from Miami International Airport and spent MANY long hours watching planes in the sky. I have been aware of vaportrails since I was a child & seeking them out was a favorite pastime.

That's simply not what I'm seeing here today. These 'chemtrails' do not disipate the way traditional vaportrails do. I have seen the same crosshatch patterns that you and many others have seen, and have seen them here VERY recently in the last month here in the American south east. These flights are very high altitude, and the lingering trails all diplay the signature spidering along the edges that have come to be recognized as suspect. One observation I postulate under common sense is this: IF these trails are corelated to enviornmental issues, it stands to reason that these sprayings will be condensed in metropolitan areas such as large cities. It's said that major cities(like Atlanta, which I am very close to) generate their own weather to a degree as a result of it's pollution. This would make a neccessity to spray these areas much more heavily in an effort to combat the damage the city sends into the local atmosphere, IF one follows the logic that these trails are related to that at all. I can only say that in the wake of these sprayings I have gotten seriously sick with what others have named the 'One month cough', and have done so since I moved to this area. I experience it roughly three times a year now, and it's not allergies, although it shares symptoms.

The bottom line is I don't have any idea what they actually are, but I KNOW they are not regular vapor trails..I also know that the answer lies behind the eight-ball here on the internet; how to quantify someone else's authenticity or even motives is nearly impossible.

I depair for an answer to this and many other questions, yet live with the conviction I may never know in my lifetime WHAT is actually going on behind this veil of lies that I have been spoonfed since birth. That I should be consumed with a passion to un-fuck the work of of 33rd degree madmen in the hope of simple cognizance, that this overwhelms and interferes with any persuit of what we call spirituality or inner peace is a perversion of what life should actually be about. While I see no sign of a creator, the stench of secrets weighs heavily in it's place. It disgusts me..

Sorry for the rant, I'm gratified to have a chance to speak how I feel, and again, I applaud all your efforts & will be at your side questing for truth.

12:54 a.m.  
Blogger Et in Arcadia ego said...

*sorry for some bad spelling; long day here*

12:57 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

some really interesting comments here, this is a quite enjoyable session, i was very glad to read the post from Norway/France which kind of backs up my own limited observations here in Europe. I grew up in New Mexico in the 1950´s so i know what a "blue sky" is supposed to look like, and last month having spent a month in Portugal, that sky is still very blue, and the contrails dissapate rapidly. Question, are there ceritian weather conditions, upper atmospheric conditions which would cause ´"normal" contrails to disspate slowly and wierdly like the photos from North America ??? If not, then i am inclined to side with the group who believe that the spraying is actually being done, at least in North America,,, and my only question is "WHY" is there not public outrage and demands for explainations and cessation of this if it is even remotely harmful ??,,,,,,,here in Denmark contrails ( on the rare occasions when you can see the sky ) dont appear to linger,,,, IMHO ,

10:02 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Regarding the Carnicom page which connects orbs with "chemtrails": wasn't the orb "summoned" by Profit Yahoo/Prophet Yahweh moving on a chemtrail background?

Maybe some chemtrails are used in experiments with holographic or other types of projections? Jacques Vallee mentions that the Germans used projections of Virgin Mary on banks of smoke to scare the French during WWI.

11:28 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

After reading all 52 comments posted at this time, I made some notes:

I can't remember the last time I heard a sonic boom, but I know it was in the 1960's. It was always quite exciting -- windows rattled, the house shook. My kid sister and I would squeal with fake panic.

The last truly blue sky I can recall was September 11, 2001. It was gorgeous. Crystal blue and deep.

I can't remember enjoying a normal sunset, or sunrise either for that matter. Sunsets were once so dramatic here (I live on a mountain) and I would try (and fail) to capture the beauty on film.

As mentioned by an earlier poster, the sunlight seems different. It is more of a white glare, it's so hard on the eyes, and now I wear polarized sunglasses because my older ones just don't do the job. (Oh, I should add I am wearing the polarized glasses inside a car with heavily tinted glass. The increase of that feature in automobiles alone should be a red flag.)

I can't remember the last time our local meteorolgists got the forecast right.

I just got back from a camping trip in a rural section of New England. I got to see chemtrails and contrails in the same skyscape as we drove to our destination. The contrails were short in length and disappeared faily quickly. The chemtrails grew like some kind of expanding foam, and covered immense sections of the sky, and they just lasted and lasted. And then within a few hours it rained when the forecast had said no rain for that day. It was just like Jeff wrote earlier....

The "sunset" we saw the next night was odd. It wasn't the normal streaks of color, it was more like a checker board.

4:25 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I had put chemtrails in the category of "nah, this has to be complete BS" until I saw them over my town, and all the characteristics were exactly as described here & elsewhere...

http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails

There is actually quite a bit of great info on that site, if you take the time to explore.

I grew up on military bases, and knew and saw technology 10-15 years before it became public. The orb films look exactly like what I would expect a regular plane with some EM field bending light around itself--this isn't very complicated science. And it's not a "hologram" it's just light-bending. Like the wavy lines that come up from a hot highway that make you think you're seeing pools of water. No diff.

I like the Holmstead site's Points to Ponder. I especially like their version of "follow the money" to see who paid for and which institutions contributed to the report that seems to link TPB to the overall operation.

What bugs me is, the damn planes fly low, and don't seem to make sound. Believe me when I say, I grew up around airports. I know they're too low to have contrails, no matter what the humidity levels are, and they are spraying some shit that lingers.

Oh yes, you recall the mention of "I wish we knew how to make spider silk" in the Deep Shield letter. Check out the goats that spin spider silk out of their udders. This is a real company, with no clear business plan (I've been checking and this page has said essentially the same thing for months http://www.nexiabiotech.com/en/01_tech/01-bst.php) except possibly to use the fiber for some sort of body armor. Right.

Note the date on the Forbes article.
http://www.forbes.com/global/2001/0219/061.html

You can't really argue with soil analysis that shows increased levels of barium & aluminum.

My theory is that for a well-paced and well- argued set of "good reasons" like "let's not panic the populace" and "we need to deal with the ozone hole" an entire operation was launched that now allows spraying of whatever the heck they want to, wherever they want, whenever they want. For instance, pathogens over those they don't like, and antidotes over the elites? My cynicism at this point is boundless.

I find no other intuitively rational (yeah, Jeff, I said that with a straight face) way to link things like the dreaded fiber disease, these cloud-trails, the pathogens found in Carnicom's lab analysis of the chemtrail remnants, increased spike in asthma and alzheimer's rates, etc.

And as usual with such evil-in-plain-sight, every "regular joe" person involved with the spraying is probably told they're saving the world from ozone hole death or similar. I don't buy the literal genetic human evolution cusp with reconfigured DNA, we don't need that kind of magic to evolve into a global renaissance, but I liked the reference earlier to Flouride. In terms of control powers...We're talking about a set of people who think in game-moves that are a generation-per-turn. Flouride was at least a half-decade ploy to render a populace more compliant, and less healthy. No matter how you slice it, that makes us easier to govern, more profitable, and less likely to ever figure things out..

6:10 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You guys are right about the lack of sonic booms; I can't remember the last time I heard one either..Saw a nice big fat chemtrail last night at dusk. It rained heavily about 2 hours later on an otherwise very dry late afternoon, and I'm here now in the morning coughing up shit & blowing the same junk out of my nose that I've come to associate with these sprayings. One needs to remain vigilant against encroaching mania, though. Simply because a trail was sighted before rain does not indicate it was responsible for it and many of these trails I've seen had no rain come afterwards.

Seriously, folks..How the Hell are we going to have disclosure on what the hell this stuff actually is? Plausable Denial and comparmentalization insulates any truly cuplpable agents with a protective layer of individuals that probably believe they're doing something positive..

How do we penetrate that?

10:00 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jeff,
This will be probably lost in the thread, but FWIW, when you talk about "debunking" vs. "debugging", I think you made some good points. I find some useful info on this web site but I also find "crazy" stuff as well.

As far as these Satanic pedophile ritual abuse cases, I think the McMartin preschool & the Little Rascals daycare cases have been thouroughly debugged - no ritual abuse occurred, both cases existed solely because of some crazy parents & over-zealous prosecuters. Other cases I do not know and am not certain about, but I propose these stand as good examples of "debunked"/"debugged" sex abuse cases.

5:11 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

smiths

i grew up in england and regularly watched contrails forming by myself and with my dad who was an aircraft obsessive.
for a good ten years i observed them and their shapes until i left england to live in australia.
recently i spent about three or four hours looking at photos on the net of 'chemtrails' and they are simply not the same things.
i live in perth, western australia now which locals refer to as the most isolated city on earth and i'm starting to think that may be a blessing in disguise.
i have never seen in perth a 'chemtrail' or anything resembling one and i would no without doubt since due to perths isolation planes simply do not fly over at 30,000ft. They land and take off.
i must also say i have a bit of a problem with the theory that spraying would be kept quiet for the sake of not scaring people. cfcs were faded out cos they fuck up the ozone and reality of this never sent people into panic, food is messed with largescale and aside from a small percentage of well meaning protesters, no-one seems to care.
so why would anyone care if it were announced that a global coalition of scientist were spraying
harmless reflectives into the stratosphere to cool the planet and save us from global warming and planetwide meltdown.

2:11 a.m.  
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